Bone head move.

[trichard310]

Sooooo, like a bumb s*&t, I removed the bolt that connects the a/c tubing to the firewall(right side tube) and lost all my freon. When I tightened the bolt down, I couldn't stop the freon from leaking. My question is, do I just recharge the system with freon or will I need to do something else like replace a seal? Please dont ask why I removed the bolt, I am ashamed enough!outtahere.gif

 

[tjkj2002]

You will need to replace that seal(o-ring) as once you relieve the tension on them they will no longer seal correctly.

Then you will need to vacuum the system down to at least 28-29in for 30-60mins then recharge with the correct amount of R134A(1.6 some pounds for the KJ).Not a DIY project since some special tools are needed that can be rather pricey.

 

[LibertyTC]

The seal has to be replaced. Best to take it to an air conditioning specialist, with the correct high low gauges, and know what they are doing with them.
Here it would cost about $200 to do that work as Tj mentioned.

 

[ThunderbirdJunkie]

You can't use those little can thingies they have at advanced auto and such?

Need to put an accurate amount in the system. Cans don't do that.

 

[jnaut]

You can't use those little can thingies they have at advanced auto and such?

Nnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Let me be more clear... hell no.

 

[brucebotti]

Nnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Let me be more clear... hell no.

With all due respect, that's not necessarily true. You can use the small cans of R134 if you have a vacuum pump to evacuate the system. I've replaced / recharged numerous systems with the small cans using a $75 vacuum pump and a $50 set of R134 AC gauges. Just my $.02 and worth every penny..
Bruce

 

[04Liberty]

With all due respect, that's not necessarily true. You can use the small cans of R134 if you have a vacuum pump to evacuate the system. I've replaced / recharged numerous systems with the small cans using a $75 vacuum pump and a $50 set of R134 AC gauges. Just my $.02 and worth every penny..
Bruce

Yeah, but you had a vacuum pump to suck down the system. Most people just hook the can up and hope for the best.

 

[riptricket]

I would say take that to a pro. Plus, it's another excuse to spend money. Also, it may have needed freon anyway.

 

[kb0nly]

Bruce is right, but just to requote again... You HAVE TO vacuum the system down now that its been opened up to get the air out. After you vacuum it down it then needs the right amount of oil and refrigerant to bring it back to working.

Make sure you don't put your controls to the AC or Defrost settings until you get it fixed, just to make sure it doesn't attempt to run the AC Compressor for now, otherwise you will end up replacing that too.

If you have a dealer use them cause the seal is probably dealer only part and MUST be replaced, as previously stated its a one time use. Then have them recharge it.

Ok, now lets all have a good laugh here, tell us why you removed the bolt? Come on, the damage is already done might as well cough up the details, we all make stupid mistakes now and then, live and learn... LOL

 

[osufans]

You can probably buy a master seal kit from Carquest or a similar store for $10 or so (just bought one for my '05 Chrysler T&C). Invest the money you would have spent at a "pro" and get an air operated vacuum pump, and a set of manifold gauges. Then you'll have it for next time.

Get one can of refrigerant oil, and then 2-3 cans of refrigerant, and do it yourself. A/C is just plumbing, there's nothing voodoo about it. Just have to make sure you have oil in the system to lubricate the compressor, and you have the atmospheric air out (due to moisture content), to keep the oil from sludging up. (Although some have argued that the drier could handle this as long as it was only opened temporarily.)

 

[jnaut]

With all due respect, that's not necessarily true. You can use the small cans of R134 if you have a vacuum pump to evacuate the system. I've replaced / recharged numerous systems with the small cans using a $75 vacuum pump and a $50 set of R134 AC gauges. Just my $.02 and worth every penny..
Bruce

Well, ok... I'm intrigued. This vacuum pump, can it pull a vacuum on the entire system and hold that vacuum for 20 minutes? And this vacuum pump, are you pulling exising r134 out of the system, and if you are, where does it go?

 

[jnaut]

Example, here's a small dissertation on the requirements and pitfalls of the types of vacuum pumps used to evacuate an AC system and why it's more complicated than many people think:

http://www.aircondition.com/tech/questions/38/

Here's the general procedure on doing an auto ac system correctly. If you don't have this equipment or aren't prepared to follow this procedure (ie, removing all of the moisture and condensate from the system) you'll be in for trouble down the road:

http://www.autoacforum.com/messageview.cfm?catid=20&threadid=7931

Just a snippet:

When system has achieved a state of 29.9 hg’s of vacuum close both dials on the a/c gauge set. You may loose up to 1 hg for every 1000 feet above sea level depending on the capacity and quality of pump. At this point wait 5 to 10 minutes letting the vacuum boil off any moisture trapped in the refrigerant oil. This is also a good time to watch and see if vacuum has returned to a zero state. If so you need to check for leaks in the system. Assuming the system is holding a vacuum after letting the moisture boil off repeat the evacuation procedure again. This process may need to be done a few times before all moisture has been removed and you see no degradation in vacuum after closing both dials for 5 to 10 minutes.

With both dials closed remove the center charging hose attached to the vacuum pump and connect it to either a can tap and refrigerant or 30lbs refrigerant cylinder. Open the valve on either the can tap or 30lbs cylinder allowing refrigerant into the charging hose. With refrigerant in the charging hose slowly crack this hose at the manifold gauge bleeding off any air that may have gotten trapped when moving from the vacuum pump to the refrigerant source. Only the slightest amount of refrigerant should be released in this process so be sure to tighten the charging line quickly!

That's just a snippet. As you can see, this isn't the kind of thing that can be done properly by the home mechanic with two cans of Canned Air, a tire gauge, some sections of rubber hose and the love of Jesus in his heart.

 

[osufans]

Well, ok... I'm intrigued. This vacuum pump, can it pull a vacuum on the entire system and hold that vacuum for 20 minutes? And this vacuum pump, are you pulling exising r134 out of the system, and if you are, where does it go?

In the air! For the love of God, who cares?! There's more pollutants released from all the tree-huggers flying around the globe than from me dumping my freon into the atmosphere!

 

[osufans]

Example, here's a small dissertation on the requirements and pitfalls of the types of vacuum pumps used to evacuate an AC system and why it's more complicated than many people think:

http://www.aircondition.com/tech/questions/38/

Here's the general procedure on doing an auto ac system correctly. If you don't have this equipment or aren't prepared to follow this procedure (ie, removing all of the moisture and condensate from the system) you'll be in for trouble down the road:

http://www.autoacforum.com/messageview.cfm?catid=20&threadid=7931

Just a snippet:



That's just a snippet. As you can see, this isn't the kind of thing that can be done properly by the home mechanic with two cans of Canned Air, a tire gauge, some sections of rubber hose and the love of Jesus in his heart.

And like many other textbook to real-world applications, I am sure this is followed to the T at every garage around the country.

Yes, the air-operated pump I used can draw and hold 28-29 in mercury. And was done so for over 15 mins. Then the system was closed off, and refrigerant was added directly while measuring high-side pressure. Once optimal pressure was reached (according to some quick searching, our van required 200-300 PSI), and once the compressor was cycling at a regular interval and pressure was stable at around 250 PSI, I stopped adding refrigerant.

Like I said, there are several sites that say the drier can draw off moisture if needed, but that is not the best way to do it.

To your argument however, my mechanic did say he would evacuate it and charge it for about $80-100 once I had my system put back together, so going that route wasn't a bad price. I'm not sure what other places charge, but I didn't think that was unreasonable. I just didn't have time to take it to him, so I did it myself.

 

[osufans]

Oh, one note about the air-operated pumps though...you do have to have an efficient sized compressor....most of your small home/garage ones aren't capable of keeping up with it.

I have an oiled 4.2 SCFM @90PSI compressor, and it had to run continuously for the 20 mins to keep up with the drawdown of the pump.

 

[SurfGuitar141]

If you got one of these....
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=66466


and one of these.....
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=92649

plus a 30 Lb. can of R-134a....you might be able to pull it off, if not take it to a pro...

And those little cans sold at the parts store are find for topping off your system, but not what's needed for a full charge.

 

[jnaut]

Oh, one note about the air-operated pumps though...you do have to have an efficient sized compressor....most of your small home/garage ones aren't capable of keeping up with it.

I have an oiled 4.2 SCFM @90PSI compressor, and it had to run continuously for the 20 mins to keep up with the drawdown of the pump.

see that's what I was getting at. I was less concerned about you venting the 134 into the air, than I was about your vacuum pump. I have a 2 gallon shop compressor, which wouldn't cut it. I'm a little surprised your 4.2cfm comp can do the job. Is that one of those 4 gallon compressors? My impression was that you needed the really big compressor that they have at Home Depot for $600.

Look, if you have the right equipment to do it properly, I'm not against it. But the fact of the matter is, most people don't. And the cost of the equipment usually eclipses what you'll save at a proper shop. Most people think you can "properly" recharge your system by buying the can at Autozone and calling it done.

Now, if you DO have the proper equipment, and do follow the procedure, offer to do all your friends' AC work for them at $90 a head and make some money off it.

 

[jnaut]

If you got one of these....
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=66466


and one of these.....
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=92649

plus a 30 Lb. can of R-134a....you might be able to pull it off, if not take it to a pro...

And those little cans sold at the parts store are find for topping off your system, but not what's needed for a full charge.

And again "topping off your system" means that you have a leak. Properly functioning AC systems don't need to be topped off, because they should be 100% sealed. If you're "topping off", you've got a leak, be it ever so small, and you should at some point address the leak.

As for the equipment you linked... looks like good stuff. So to do your own AC you're into about $200 worth of equipment, not including a good compressor (if you don't already own one.. .many gearheads do). A friend and I were talking today and asking ourselves how often our AC systems fail. Even if you really could buy all the equipment for say $400 (assuming you needed to buy a good compressor as I would), it may never pay for itself.

edit: or wait, that vacuum pump is electric, no? So I guess no compressor needed with that. Well, that's certainly more reasonable.

 

[brucebotti]

Well, ok... I'm intrigued. This vacuum pump, can it pull a vacuum on the entire system and hold that vacuum for 20 minutes? And this vacuum pump, are you pulling exising r134 out of the system, and if you are, where does it go?

The vacuum pump is great, just not as quick as a more professional unit. The four AC units that I worked on were ones that either had a blown compressor or a blown line, therefore the R134 was removed for me.
Bruce

 

[flair1111]

the jeep dealership here does the vacum / recharge for $110.