New CRD owner with some questions

[Workinman]

Hello Boys and Girls! FNG here. Ive owned a 2005 gas Liberty about 10 years, and I love that thing. It enables me to keep unwanted mileage off of my Ram 2500 CTD. Ive always wanted a CRD but could never find a decent one in my area that was for sale. Ive only actually seen ONE that was for sale, at a little used car dealer in my area, and it was gone pretty quick. So, a few weeks ago my wife was driving in the area and she spotted one for sale in someones front yard. I checked it out pretty thoroughly, but still took a chance on it as it had 120K on it, and it had a CEL on. I read the code, and it came up P1267. Which I believe is pretty common to these things?? The PO (Bought it brand new) stated that he had had the glow plugs replaced twice but that the light stays on . I don't even know if they are working at this point because its 95 degrees here. when I turn the key on, the glow plug light flashes for a second and then goes away pretty much instantly. The engine fires up just fine, but in my opinion it cranks a TAD too much before starting. By that i mean that it cranks for 4 to 5 seconds before starting. None of my other diesels have done/do that. They fire off a little quicker. Regardless, I can live with that if its normal.
My concern is with the check engine light. I can't stand having that light on constantly. I'm assuming that the PO had the glow plugs changed (Twice) by someone who didn't know what they were doing. Maybe the glow plug controller should be replaced when you change glow plugs? Maybe the computer needed to reflashed and wasn't? If I need to replace the glow plugs again, and change the controller, and have the computer reflashed, I will. I just hate to throw money at something that might not need it. I'm willing to bet that you guys have run into this before and can steer me in the right direction. I don't want to drag this out too long, being my first post, and I'm really hoping you guys can help me. My local Jeep dealer won't be much help, I'm afraid.Im hoping to keep my CRD for many years, and I want to get it right.
Thanks for any guidance you guys can give me.
Chris

 

[seafish]

Welcome to the forum…I ALSO drive a 2005 KJ CRD as well as a 2005 Ram CTD. BOTH great trucks, one is just a little smaller then the other LOL

While they are both CRD fuel injection systems, one difference between the two, is that on the KJ CRD the lines from the fuel tank to the firewall mounted fuel pump and filter tend to crack and leak from age.

The eventual result is air at the top of the filter head which can lead to slow or even no starts.
The air in the pump and filter is purged with the priming pump/purge bolt (13mm) at the top/passenger side of the pump/filter head.


Additionally, you can check for air (with engine not running) by pressing the prime button until it gets hard to press, and then open the bleed screw. If fuel comes out immediately, then I am wrong about the cracked lines, but if air comes out first, then likely they are cracked and will continue to leak even after you purge the air this time. Purging the air will fix the slow start for awhile, until enoiugh air leaks in again.

The ultimate fix for this is to to buy (or make) a converted in tank lift pump/fuel gauge sender from a 3rd gen Dodge Ram (with Cummins) and retrofit it into the KJ CRD fuel tank. Whle you do have to drop the tank on the CTD, It is not a particularly difficult project , especially if you buy the (fairly expensive) kit from Sasquatch, which is plug n' play.
I have a write up about it somewhere on this site.

Of course, if air does NOT purge out when you try to, then your slow start problem is something else entirely.

You do know that JEEP stands for "Just Empty Every Pocket", right? LOL

 

[Turboman280]

Good points from Seafish. On mine I preemptively replaced the cam position sensor and noticed longer crank afterwards. I found a genuine Bosch and put that in and it starts much quicker.

 

[Unclebob9]

Welcome to the forum…I ALSO drive a 2005 KJ CRD as well as a 2005 Ram CTD. BOTH great trucks, one is just a little smaller then the other LOL

While they are both CRD fuel injection systems, one difference between the two, is that on the KJ CRD the lines from the fuel tank to the firewall mounted fuel pump and filter tend to crack and leak from age.

The eventual result is air at the top of the filter head which can lead to slow or even no starts.
The air in the pump and filter is purged with the priming pump/purge bolt (10mm) at the top/passenger side of the pump/filter head.


Additionally, you can check for air (with engine not running) by pressing the prime button until it gets hard to press, and then open the bleed screw. If fuel comes out immediately, then I am wrong about the cracked lines, but if air comes out first, then likely they are cracked and will continue to leak even after you purge the air this time. Purging the air will fix the slow start for awhile, until enoiugh air leaks in again.

The ultimate fix for this is to to buy (or make) a converted in tank lift pump/fuel gauge sender from a 3rd gen Dodge Ram (with Cummins) and retrofit it into the KJ CRD fuel tank. Whle you do have to drop the tank on the CTD, It is not a particularly difficult project , especially if you buy the (fairly expensive) kit from Sasquatch, which is plug n' play.
I have a write up about it somewhere on this site.

Of course, if air does NOT purge out when you try to, then your slow start problem is something else entirely.

You do know that JEEP stands for "Just Empty Every Pocket", right? LOL

Ask the previous owner IF they ever replaced the timing belt, IF not it is over due. IF it fails your engine is toast! These are great vehicles in Europe, when they brought them to the USA they removed parts to cut costs and hurt the longevity of the Liberty CRD. When I bought mine the first thing I did was to remove the fuel tank and put in a used sending unit from a Dodge diesel truck with a fuel pump in it. I left the original fuel pump that ***** the fuel from the tank up at the engine in. NO more priming with the lever at the fuel filter, just turn on the key and the system is pressurized. I had the computer flashed by Green Diesel engineering which changes the smog system so the engine runs cleaner and adds to the H.P. and MPG, and installed a Pro-vent which filters out the blow-by oil instead of it going back through the turbo and clogging it up. I have about 140k miles on mine now with no major problems. My Harmonic balancer is getting noisy and I will soon replace it.
Most of the USA models are no longer on the road, due to engine failure due to lack of maintenance and the fuel pump the factory decided to remove from the tank. The wiring for the pump in the tank they left, you access it under the carpet, back seat drivers side. There are directions in the Liberty CRD forums and youtubes for these changes. Best of luck: bob

 

[Ian Glass]

Good advice from Turboman - all the sensors on the CRD motor are Bosch. Best to always fit with genuine Bosch sensors and not the Chinese equivalents. These have been known to be troublesome. Also buy the sensors directly from Bosch and not Jeep as they tend to be twice to three times more expensive!!!!

Air in the fuel can cause delayed starting but then so can glow plugs! As Seafish suggests you can check for air in the system by checking for air in the fuel filter housing (highest point). Undo the brass bleed bolt on the filter housing - 13mm or 1/2" spanner plus undo and pump the ribbed white bleed plunger. Pump until only fuel comes out of the bleed bolt hole. If no air comes out of the fuel filter the feed from the tank to the filter is good! The feed from the tank to the HP pump (CP3) is a suction system so any leak in this line won't show as a fuel leak due to this suction. You can do a regular bleed of the fuel filter as soon as starting gets sluggish but its best to find the source of the air ingress.

Glow plugs are easy to access but there are two types so just check that the correct ones were fitted to this motor when they were changed. This might be giving the P1267 error code! The glow plug controller is usually bullet proof but can go wrong!

My CRD was a bit sluggish when starting but a new starter motor cured that!

 

[Workinman]

Thanks guys!
The PO said that the timing belt was replaced about 3000 miles ago, along with the water pump, which he said he upgraded to one with a metal impeller to replace the factory plastic one, they did some head work while in there, new intercooler hoses, and several other things. He also said they serviced the transmission, and both differentials. I was just under there looking around and it doesn’t appear to me that the bolts on the rear differential have ever been touched with a wrench, so I’m beginning to doubt the word of the PO or the word of the shop claiming to have done the work. Sorry, but I don’t trust ANYBODY to work on my stuff just for this reason. They either do it wrong or they don’t do it at all and claim they did.
As for the glow plugs, from what I’ve gathered, when changing them from the original ceramic type, you need to reflash the computer or you will get a CEL. He claimed that they had changed the glow plugs twice trying to get rid of the CEL, but it’s still there. This could quite possibly have been a shop that didn’t even know about the computer reflash, so having that done might fix the light. I don’t know. I was hoping you guys might be able to enlighten me about this. I have my doubts about my local Jeep dealer, for one reason being that this thing is 21 years old. Most dealerships won’t even work on something that old. Is there an aftermarket company that might reflash the computer?
Speaking of dealers, he gave me an oil pan that he said the Jeep dealer stripped the drain plug hole on and he had to replace it. He said they charged him a thousand bucks for a new oil pan, after THEY screwed it up. That doesn’t make much sense to me. If YOU strip my oil pan, YOU are gonna fix it.

I did bleed my fuel filter and there was a substantial amount of air in there. I don’t know how much is normal, but I thought it was quite a bit. I’ll do it again in a few days and see if it builds up air again. Thanks for that info on doing that. It worked great!

I also found the hose leading from the CCV on the valve cover to the turbo was split and dumping oil (or maybe oil mist) onto the top of the motor. The CCV seems to be fine. I’ve ordered a new hose, and spliced a new section onto this one until the new one shows up.

As I stated before, I’ve had a gas Liberty for 10 years or so and I love that thing. I’m hoping this CRD Liberty will last me a long time. We’ve decided to keep the gas model, so we’ll have two Liberty’s in the family.

Again, thanks for the help so far, and I’ll keep seeking advice as I go through this thing. I would love to meet someone who has a CRD in person so I can compare the two. (What sounds are normal, what sounds are not. Etc.) I live in Winston Salem, NC if anyone is willing to meet up.

 

[seafish]

I don’t know how much is normal,

None is normal…you have old and leaking fuel lines that run from the top of the tank to the fuel pump in the engine compartment. At the very least, they are contributing, and maybe even causing, your "slow start" issue.
As mentioned, the ultimate solution is to drop the tank and insatll the in tank pump/canister form a 3rd gen Dodge Ram Cummins. The wiring is already there, though some it is accessed just under the rear seat.

Sasquatch has all the parts and instructions you need…its bout a 3-4 hour job tough its also nice to have a freind along for the extra set of hands with dropping and reinstalling the tank. ALso best to run the tank down to less then quarter full before hand.

If your solid with wiring, you can jst buy the fuel pump/sender canister from Rockauto and modify the wiring harness for it, but the Sasquatch kit is plug n play,

 

[Workinman]

Okay. I’m going to show just how much of a CRD newb that I am.

Who is Sasquatch?
If they have a plug and play option, that sounds right up my alley.

 

[Turboman280]

I put in 5V Bosch steel tipped glow plugs, no re-flash needed and no faults.

 

[seafish]

Who is Sasquatch?
If they have a plug and play option, that sounds right up my alley.

On sale right now too.

Fuel System – SasquatchParts.com

Fuel system parts for 2005-2006 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD

shop.sasquatchparts.com

 

[Workinman]

I put in 5V Bosch steel tipped glow plugs, no re-flash needed and no faults.

My Liberty had 7 volt ceramic plugs from the factory, and I’m fairly certain it has 7 volt steel plugs now. Would installing 5 volt plugs fix my CEL issue?
AI says that if I install 5 volt plugs I would need to replace the glow plug controller and have the computer reflashed. I don’t put a lot of faith in AI, so I thought I would run it by you guys.
The PO told me that he had 7 volt plugs installed, and he gave me a set of pretty much brand new 7 volt plugs, so I’m guessing when he had the first set installed and it set off the CEL, he had a second set installed, and still had the CEL, so he just decided to live with it. He said the light had been on for quite a while. I can’t stand to have warning lights glowing on my dashboard, so I need to figure this out. He did mention that they checked the power going to the plugs and it all checked out fine even though the P1267 code says something about low voltage to #4 glow plug.
I’m confused…

 

[Turboman280]

Check the #4 plug with an ohm meter and compare to the others. CEL will most likely be triggered by an open (infinite resistance) glow plug. Could also be a bad connector or harness. When I did mine I replaced the harness and relay at the same time because I am lazy and hate to touch parts twice. I suppose you could also switch the harness around and see if the fault stayed with the glow plug or the connector.

 

[Turboman280]

Other random thoughts:

Were there receipts for the timing belt job?

When you are messing with the glow plugs, there is a bunch of stuff under the intake that you may need to get out of the way. Sometimes that stuff does not get put back on, but then you need a tune to keep the computer happy.

 

[Workinman]

I saw a receipt for a bunch of work he had done, but I forgot to take it with me, and I very rarely contact someone after I buy a vehicle from them. He did give me the water pump that they replaced, and the “almost new” glow plugs they replaced, and I see they put fancy blue silicone hoses on the intercooler and stuff, so I’m pretty confident that they actually did the work. He also mentioned that they did a bunch of work to the head while they were in there, so who knows what that’s all about.
The Jeep is running just fine. Even starts better now that I got the air out of the fuel line, so the issue I’m going to chase right now is the check engine light. One day soon I’ll pull this thing apart to get to the plugs and see what I can find out.
I do know this thing is a noisy little diesel. It reminds me of an old 12 valve Cummins. That’s why I would love to find someone near me to compare it to. It’s probably perfectly normal. I’ve just gotten used to my last two diesel trucks, a 2012 Powerstroke and a 2023 Cummins which are pretty quiet. I’m a retired trucker, so I’ve been closely working around diesels for the past 30 or so years. Just never a little Italian diesel. So I’ve got some learnin to do on this thing.
I do appreciate the help you guys have given me so far, and I hope you will continue.
I restore vintage Japanese motorcycles as a hobby, so if I can ever help you guys with anything related to that I will be happy to.