What the heck is this thing?

[burntkat]

This is a preassembled, prebled, unserviceable clutch hydraulics assembly for an 05 Liberty 3.7 4x4 Renegade with 6-speed manual transmission....

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What I'm trying to figure out, however, is what in the hell this little gold widget is... Closer views.....

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I've had people tell me it's a one-way valve (can't possibly be, as you'd clutch one time and never move the car again) or an accumulator (unneeded and as far as I'm aware, not possible in line).

Does anyone KNOW? I am making my own line to install separate/serviceable parts, and an not sure if this is part of the problem I had last weekend when it wouldn't work (I'm 99% sure that problem was due to oversized line leaving me with not enough stroke at the SC)...

 

[seafish]

Don’t KNOW for sure but right off the bat, I’m gonna guess that it’s a sort of mini pulse damper to keep any pulses from the throwout bearing/fork/clutch/flywheel from traveling up and down the line if the rotational movement effects the slave cylinder piston.

Stellantis was just getting into NVH remediation more back in 2005

Again just my best guess

 

[seafish]

Like this—

They come as small as 1/8” diameter and while are mostly used for pump installations, there is no reason they couldn’t be used for manual piston applications where a pulsation might be introduced by another rotating mass

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In-Line Pulsation Dampeners | AxFlow

In-line pulsation dampeners reduce pressure pulsationand act as a flexible coupling.

www.axflow.com

 

[burntkat]

That makes complete sense. It fits along with why they put that 15 pound wart on the rear axle pinion. "Tuned mass damper".

I knew someone would have a clue. Many thanks!

 

[seafish]

It fits along with why they put that 15 pound wart on the rear axle pinion. "Tuned mass damper".

Exactly …in fact I almost mentioned that wart AND the failure prone dual mass flywheel that they started to use behind the mighty Cummins)

I highly doubt it will be a problem to leave out.

If you wanted you could call Valair and ask them what they think bout dissing the damper on the hydraulics. They do make a nice upgraded hydraulic line for my2005 Dodge Ram and it has nothing of the sort on it.

 

[burntkat]

Since you seem to know a few things about this sort of thing....

What would be the effect if you took
the stock clutch MC and SC, and installed a hydraulic line between the two (using the proper JIC adapters) that, instead of being 3/16"ID, was 1/4" ID?

Because I did that very thing last weekend... And the damn car wouldn't shift. The line I used was -4 hydraulic line with a 'single wire reinforced' construction, good for 3000psi. So I'm quite sure it wasn't ballooning.

Pretty sure the travel of the slave would have been reduced, by at least a factor of 33%, resulting in the no-shift condition (while running), but I mess around with hydraulics just enough that I have to relearn it every time...

 

[seafish]

Since you seem to know a few things about this sort of thing....

What would be the effect … instead of being 3/16"ID, was 1/4" ID?

Pretty sure the travel of the slave would have been reduced, by at least a factor of 33%, resulting in the no-shift condition …

While I am self taught and YouTube certified with an advanced degree in MacGyverism , I am no hydraulic expert…that said, I totally agree with your assessment on line volume and piston travel

 

[burntkat]

While I am self taught and YouTube certified with an advanced degree in MacGyverism , I am no hydraulic expert…that said, I totally agree with your assessment on line volume and piston travel

OK, so we are in the same boat. Thanks!

 

[KJowner]

Yes, the fluid should act like a rod connecting the two pistons, as long as everything is full of fluid the volume of the hose should be irrelevant because the fluid doesn't compress so I'm puzzled why it doesn't work. I've recently installed a similar setup on a crane with an 25' long hose to work the fuel rack from the cab, that works fine so yours should too.

 

[burntkat]

I bet that has a hydraulic motor or pump involved. It would make up for the limited amount of capacity in the MC in my example.

Or, I could be completely wrong.

 

[KJowner]

No it's a master cylinder and slave setup the same as yours.

 

[seafish]

Then maybe just a small air bubble in the line?

 

[burntkat]

Then maybe just a small air bubble in the line?

That's doubtful. We gravity bled it, bench bled it, and pressure-bled it.

 

[burntkat]

Then maybe just a small air bubble in the line?

I have to say, it's looking more and more like this MUST be the case.

I am going to be working on my son's XJ tomorrow (R&R the 2.5" flex fan spacer with a 2.25", to clear the hood latch and OEM fan shroud). We had some temperatures in the 90s this week and even with the shroud absent, he's reported the Jeep is running a bit cooler than before. Still has vapor lock, though, even after installing an insulation kit. That's another discussion, and we have plans...

While I'm at the garage tomorrow I'll do another bench bleed, and re-test this thing to see what the issue may be.

Everyone's input has been most helpful, and has lead me to a lot of reading in the subject. This link (https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/brake-clutch-hard-line-diameter-differences.917071/) seems to have been most salient. I am still looking for something along the lines of 'hydraulics for dummies'... As I said, every time I mess with this, I have to brush off the cobwebs of my knowledge with it... Kind of like IPV6

 

[burntkat]

Oh, adding to this...
So the OEM clutch hose (on the prebled systems) is nylon fuel line (yes, the name is somewhat misleading) measuring 0.318. Close enough to 0.325 to call it 5/16 nominal...
I looked up the dims for 5/16 nylon fuel line. Turns out the ID is 0.224 nominal....

That's close enough to 1/4" for government work.

The clutch line I made for this, using the field-service -4 JIC hose ends and all? Nominal 1/4" ID.

So, just to keep everything honest, I am going to bench bleed the MC as a separate item. Ensure all the air is out of the valve in it, using the 4'long hose which I of course will gravity bleed to ensure it is air-free, first.... Then once the hose and MC are bled, I will reconnect the SC, gravity and pressure bleed it, (all of this taking place on the bench) and check for stroke length. If it passes all that, I'm putting it back in the box as ready-spares. I also have two professionally manufactured hoses on the way from Speedway Motorsports, which are specifically built as clutch hydraulic lines for Jeeps (can't imagine any difference, but for 25 bucks, send it and I'll keep it for spares). Can't imagine any issue with the hose I built (I've used the same type of hose/connectors, in - 6 size, for hydraulic lines before without issues) but hell....

Tired of screwing with hydraulics for today... Off to work on my 10/22 build for the Appleseed shoot...

 

[seafish]

That's doubtful. We gravity bled it, bench bled it, and pressure-bled it.

Should be able to just gravity bleed or bench bleed,… maybe the pressure bleed introduced microscopic air bubbles.

 

[seafish]

OK, so we are in the same boat. Thanks!

The same leaky boat hahaha