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JTPhotoJK

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For the fitment archive.

Lift - 2" TerraFlex BB

Tires and wheels - ProComp Xtreme M/T 31X10.50R-15 on ProComp Xtreme Alloy 7069 .. 15x8 5 on 4.5 3.75BS

Rubbing at front of front inner fenderwell when turning hard

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derek6787

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Did you have to grind on your caliper or anything? Or just out of the box and on the Jeep?
 

JTPhotoJK

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Did you have to grind on your caliper or anything? Or just out of the box and on the Jeep?

No grinding to fit the 15" wheels due to the 3.75" Backspace. The wheels fit like a glove but I would suggest going with a 30" tire. Due to the steering and suspension geometry the front end dives when turning causing the tires to rub on the inner wheel wells. With the 31x10.50x15 tires you will have to trim the inner plastic wheel wells and pinch seams (under the plastic inner wheel well) at the rear of the wheel wells. You will also have to trim the plastic inner wheel wells at the front.

PS Due to the cost and lack of affordable mods for the Libby, my daughter has traded her Liberty in on a Wrangler JK 2dr. Soon to have a 2.5" lift and 35's...
 

tommudd

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Wrong back spacing
too wide of a wheel
worn out suspension
All are what is causing your issues
the diving is caused by the worn out springs and shocks , mine doesn't do it with good springs and shock
Having the right backspacing 4 inch and new OME springs and shocks and you'd have a nice ride and would handle better than new
 

JTPhotoJK

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Wrong back spacing
too wide of a wheel
worn out suspension
All are what is causing your issues
the diving is caused by the worn out springs and shocks , mine doesn't do it with good springs and shock
Having the right backspacing 4 inch and new OME springs and shocks and you'd have a nice ride and would handle better than new

WRONG backspacing!!! - No, 1/4" difference in BS is not going to make any difference nor will the wheel width, the diving in the front end "is" from the steering geometry enhanced further by the 2" Terraflex BB that was installed. That is simply the nature of the "independent front end" beast. The TeraFlex BB uses a strut spacer plate which mounts between the top of the strut and strut mount, in essence lengthening the strut assembly like your longer shocks and springs. It does not use a spacer on the stock spring in the strut assembly. The dive was not noticeable with stock tires after the lift was installed. The ride with the bigger tires and TF lift was great, no problem there, it also handled better then new, just the tire rub on turning. All suspension components were not worn out and once the lift was removed and stock tires back on, all was back to normal.
Tom, if we still had the Libby here I would get some pics for you so you could see what I mean. The "whole front end" would drop enough (at least an inch) while turning the wheels to cause the tires to rub the front and rear of the wheel wells. A wheel alignment stopped excessive tire wear but did not stop the dive on turning.
 
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DirtyKK

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The stock front springs are entirely too soft imo. Used to dive while braking and swaying in turns. New lift remedied the feeling. Plenty of people run 10.5" wide tires on 4" backspacing on a 7" rim. You should have gone with a 15x7 and that offset would probably have worked better.
 

tjkj2002

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WRONG backspacing!!! - No, 1/4" difference in BS is not going to make any difference nor will the wheel width, the diving in the front end "is" from the steering geometry enhanced further by the 2" Terraflex BB that was installed. That is simply the nature of the "independent front end" beast. The TeraFlex BB uses a strut spacer plate which mounts between the top of the strut and strut mount, in essence lengthening the strut assembly like your longer shocks and springs. It does not use a spacer on the stock spring in the strut assembly. The dive was not noticeable with stock tires after the lift was installed. The ride with the bigger tires and TF lift was great, no problem there, it also handled better then new, just the tire rub on turning. All suspension components were not worn out and once the lift was removed and stock tires back on, all was back to normal.
Tom, if we still had the Libby here I would get some pics for you so you could see what I mean. The "whole front end" would drop enough (at least an inch) while turning the wheels to cause the tires to rub the front and rear of the wheel wells. A wheel alignment stopped excessive tire wear but did not stop the dive on turning.
The lift,tires/wheels,and wornout suspension all was the factors,just having all 3 at the same time made it more noticeable since your CG was higher and allowed more leverage,once 2 of those where removed(lift and wheels/tires) it kinda disappeared.Has nothing to do with steering geometery,SAI and caster has nothing to do with weight transfer and squat/anti-squat.


Oh and a 1/4" makes a huge difference.
 

tommudd

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I think "someone" needs to ride in a KJ set up the right way.
Then maybe they would see what the difference is

The diving was worn out suspension, period
 

JTPhotoJK

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OK sorry guys, but let me explain again cause evidently I didn't explain well enough the first time. Not trying to argue my point but to explain what was happening here and trying to get clarification on this.

The Liberty was very low mileage never wheeled, bought from a respected Chrysler dealership, not likely worn out suspension. Put the lift in, then put tires on. While backing out of the garage we noticed the tire rub when turning back onto the driveway. On inspection I noticed "the dive" happens when the vehicle is sitting still and you turn the wheel from lock to lock, how is that a symptom of worn out suspension, the suspension is not moving here, you are simple turning the wheels. the front spindles are turning on their axis which is the steering geometry, at this point, with this liftkit. My feeling is that it was caused by the new angles on the control arms. So what does this tell me, that:
#1 - leaving it as is will eventually wear parts out and be unsafe.
#2 - the problem is NOT the wheels, the BS, or tires.
#3 - this was an improper/incomplete lift kit, new longer control arms and likely longer front shafts should have been installed to maintain factory characteristics. Wheel alignment BTW did not change this issue either.

Other then this, it handled as well as stock and rode even better.

1/4" more BackSpace "to the inside" may make a difference in tire clearance and fitment over the calipers, but 1/4" less Backspace from 4 to 3.75 will not in this case.
 

DirtyKK

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low mileage and never wheeled doesnt mean shit when it comes to worn out suspension.

my suspension is stock on my low mileage cutlass, i just welded some steel in various places and put 6s on it. :smokin:

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DirtyKK

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seriously dude its already been spelled out in above post. spacer lifts on stock suspension *****, even if you think it is not worn out. any rim that has a 4" backspacing and over 7" is going to rub, take it from forum members with the experience. if you wanted 8" wide you would need 5" backspacing for 10.5 wide tires not to rub as much.
 

tjkj2002

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OK sorry guys, but let me explain again cause evidently I didn't explain well enough the first time. Not trying to argue my point but to explain what was happening here and trying to get clarification on this.

The Liberty was very low mileage never wheeled, bought from a respected Chrysler dealership, not likely worn out suspension. Put the lift in, then put tires on. While backing out of the garage we noticed the tire rub when turning back onto the driveway. On inspection I noticed "the dive" happens when the vehicle is sitting still and you turn the wheel from lock to lock, how is that a symptom of worn out suspension, the suspension is not moving here, you are simple turning the wheels. the front spindles are turning on their axis which is the steering geometry, at this point, with this liftkit. My feeling is that it was caused by the new angles on the control arms. So what does this tell me, that:
#1 - leaving it as is will eventually wear parts out and be unsafe.
#2 - the problem is NOT the wheels, the BS, or tires.
#3 - this was an improper/incomplete lift kit, new longer control arms and likely longer front shafts should have been installed to maintain factory characteristics. Wheel alignment BTW did not change this issue either.

Other then this, it handled as well as stock and rode even better.

1/4" more BackSpace "to the inside" may make a difference in tire clearance and fitment over the calipers, but 1/4" less Backspace from 4 to 3.75 will not in this case.
On a IFS vehicle like the KJ it is impossible for the front to "dive" while not moving and only turning the wheels,physically impossible.I know a little about KJ's and there suspensions,between Tom and myself we could put on a lift with both hands tied behind our backs and blindfolded.Now on a solid front axle that can happen with a bad setup but not on a IFS.


I ran on the ragged edge of max safe lift for a IFS KJ(23.5" or 3.75" over stock) witrh none of your issues and I wheeled mine extremely hard,never had a issue with alignments either after installing JBA's UCA's.Now I did have issues with 16x8 rims with 3.75" of BS,mostly rubbing issues that 7" wide rims with 4.5" of BS solved but zero "dive" issues and my KJ was sitting at 5500lbs before the SFA swap.
 

tommudd

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Troy,
Don't think whatever we say is going to change his mind.
If mine did what you are saying yours is, I would be ticked off for sure.
Mines only been lifted for 120,000 miles now, and has NEVER had diving etc thats yours has due to me doing it right the frist time.
Thats why I preach what I do. I have never installed a spacer lift, have removed a few to install OME springs though, they were all MUCH happier afterwards.
 

sport

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how does less BS cause tire rubbing when it pushes the tire and wheel out and away from suspension and body? He just needed more lift and some cutting on the fender liners/plastics. I run a 15x8 and have no rubbing but my BS is 4 I believe.
 

J-Thompson

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just some food for thought guys
today ,after reading this, I started to play with my F250
more so the loading ,shifting 2000# front to back of the bed
and playing with the air bags ,granted the '09 F250 sadly is still TTB
but close enough
over loaded front springs will do this ,like the springs would react in a KJ
with a BB
also to much rake ,rear higher than the front ,by over an inch
same problems ,front end dives when the wheels are turned
 

tjkj2002

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just some food for thought guys
today ,after reading this, I started to play with my F250
more so the loading ,shifting 2000# front to back of the bed
and playing with the air bags ,granted the '09 F250 sadly is still TTB
but close enough
over loaded front springs will do this ,like the springs would react in a KJ
with a BB
also to much rake ,rear higher than the front ,by over an inch
same problems ,front end dives when the wheels are turned
Your '09 F250 has a solid front axle and will react differently then IFS.The TTB went away in the late '90's.
 

JTPhotoJK

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just some food for thought guys
today ,after reading this, I started to play with my F250
more so the loading ,shifting 2000# front to back of the bed
and playing with the air bags ,granted the '09 F250 sadly is still TTB
but close enough
over loaded front springs will do this ,like the springs would react in a KJ
with a BB
also to much rake ,rear higher than the front ,by over an inch
same problems ,front end dives when the wheels are turned

Thank You .. This is what I was trying to explain.

The amount of CASTER angle "IS" going to affect how much the front end dives or lifts as well as the spindle assembly offset and definitely the rake will affect the CASTER angle. Too much angle and it will drop... It is the properties of the castor angle which returns you steering wheel to straight. Not enough angle and lift/dive is gone but your steering will not return to center either.

The 3.75 " BS sets the tires out further (look at the original photo, look how much room is in those wheel wells) so that wasn't the problem, a 4"-5" BS in this case would have made it even worse. There was no problem until the wheels were turned and the front dropped.

Tom, tjkj2002, there is nothing to change my mind about. I answered a question for a poster, you called BS when I explained the problem. I wanted answers, you tell me that doesn't dive. I know it dives, I watched it happen, and I had to trim because of it. I have been around here enough in the last year and half to see that you guys can no doubt put a lift in with your eyes closed and hands tied behind your back, but you just didn't run into the issue I did evidently. I also did much research on this site and valued your inputs as well as the others before buying both the lift, wheels and tires, so you can imagine my disappointment when I put it all together and on turning the wheels I found I had to trim. Needless to say my daughter wasn't too happy either. Now before you say you never promote a BB, this Teraflex kit is not a typical BB. It does have a coil spacer in the rear, but does not have a coil spacer up front that you put into the strut assembly so the spring has no extra preload, it is a strut spacer, mounted between the top of the strut and strut mounting pad. As I have explained how many times now. This is no different then putting a 2" spacer ring on top of the clevis or putting on longer strut assemblies. This is also exactly the same style lift used on the newer Dodge RAM lifts.

So NTL, it is possible that there may have been other attributing factors to this problem that at this point really doesn't matter other then to make others aware so they don't make the same mistake I made and waste money on a Libby. I just informed the poster of the issues that I had when he asked the question. Yes, we could have spent more money on a PROPER lift but whats the point when I can put a $300 lift in a Wrangler (with my eyes closed) and run 37s without needing a wheel alignment. So, my daughter opted to remove the lift, sell the tires, sell the Libby and get a Wrangler. Problem solved..
 
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J-Thompson

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Yes, we could have spent more money on a PROPER lift but whats the point when I can put a $300 lift in a Wrangler (with my eyes closed) and run 37s without needing a wheel alignment. So, my daughter opted to remove the lift, sell the tires, sell the Libby and get a Wrangler. Problem solved..



until this I was thinking you may know a thing or 2
now I have my doubts
yes you "can" put a $300 lift on a JK butcher the fenders and run 37's
however to properly run 37's there is much much more required
and the cost if you can not do it your self will easily go over $1000

and you will need an alignment on top of that or you can end up in a ditch
has to do the steering and ESP/TC/ what ever the hell was causing the
steering wheel to fight back to center on the one we installed
and even after we centered it it was still funny
needed an alignment
 

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