Trading the TJ for a KJ

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GoldBug

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Well after 6 months of a 42-mile (one way) commute to work and averaging something like 50 miles of driving for work I’ve decided the wrangler is just a tad inconvenient for the life of a photojournalist and I’m looking to get a Liberty. I still want the ground clearance I have now and a true 4wd so that’s why I want a libby, and I have some brand loyalty in me.
After talking to the guy at the dealer, he gave me prices way lower then the MSRP, (I’m sure the true employee pricing helps) yay, but I don’t know if I want to go for a Renegade of a CRD. One of my main concerns is fuel economy… I know that the KJ isn’t great but I know it’s better than the 19mpg I get in the TJ when I really try hard to drive easy (usually get about 17ish). I get reimbursed for the miles I drive at work so the CRD sounded awesome but I love a manual transmission.
So if anyone who has a Renny with the 6speed or a CRD could tell me what their mpg is on average I’d help me decided is the extra 3,000 is worth the diesel. I live south of Pittsburg so I’m not in a geographically flat area.
Also after reading up on all the tire info on the site I’m wondering if adding a tire measured at 9.8 wide by 29.5 tall would have any rubbing at all because I know the “will and will not rub chart” says max size w/o a lift is 9.7x29.6.

Thanks for any feedback.
 

DougBenn

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Better go CRD in my opinion. 19 out of a TJ is not bad. 4cyl I assume?

My Libby averages 18, My wifes Libby averages 19.5. My right foot contributes to my decline in economy. Not sure you will gain much with a 3.7 motor.
 

LibertyCRD

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I agree. Every V6 4x4 I've ever owned has averaged 16-17 miles per gallon. My wife's '04 Liberty V6 averages about 15 in the winter, and 17 in the summer. So you will be loosing mileage unless you get the CRD engine in a Liberty.

Tires...you can squeeze 245/70-16s on a stock Liberty. And 245/75-16s (30.7" tall) on a lifted Liberty.
 

mattb

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My commute right now is 215 miles round trip and I average 20mpg. 18 if I am running late. #-o

I am wishing I had the CRD pretty bad as the tank goes quickly. My wife has an 05' Grand Cherokee. It will average 25mpg on a highway trip. Don't know how it gets better mileage than the liberty maybe the extra gear in the transmission.

I would go with the CRD.
 

-=JoN=-

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ur not gonna get that much of a better mileage w/ the 3.7 I get about 18-19 (My right foot is heavier than my left for some reason...LoL)
but even if I take it ez, i'll get maybe 20 highway.....(way less city driving which I do more than half of the time)
 

Se7enLC

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If your main concern is fuel economy, the Liberty is not the way to go, unfortunately. The 6 speed is a little better if you behave on the highway (I was able to get up to 23 if I drove exactly 65mph in 6th, flat ground). More likely closer to 18-19 or so, closer to 16 in-town driving.

Be prepared to be dissapointed with the ground clearance. the 9.6" or whatever they say is really more like 6".
 

cowcatcher

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I bought my CRD in December. I am averaging about 20 MPG with daily driving of about 35 miles per day, about 1/2 city - 1/2 open road and cold weather. That is up about 3 MPG after 4K miles of driving, and it improves monthly. On a 300 mile freeway trip over the Cascade Mountains in early January and bad roads I got around 28.5 MPG. I think if I were to make the same trip today with more break-in, warmer weather and no snow I would get between 30 and 32 MPG.

By the way, my dealer sharpened his pencil on the CRD as much as he would have on the gas model.
 

grogiefrog

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Yeah, I've been getting 14's with my TJ. 17 once so far, but all highway driving at 65 mph. I'm driving the KJ just as much, as it gets in the 18's, up to 23 on the highway at 65 mph.

But still, I love the KJ. What a nice ride. It has that extra room in back for whatever the TJ doesn't! And as you said, it's got a real 4x4 unlike other vehicles it's class.

I work at home (for now), so that's why I bought a TJ over a second KJ recently. It would have been a CRD otherwise.

Good luck!
 

JeepJeepster

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If youre worried about gas mileage do not get the gas libby. In the winter im happy to get 15 in the city, in the summer it gets about 17. It does good on the highway, usually around 21-23 depending on the load.
 

VTNomad

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Winter

My winter mileage isn't any different than my summer mileage. I get 17-18 year round in town and 22-24 on the highway. Diesels are affected in the winter time because they use a different fuel that doesn't gel as easily.
 

GoldBug

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First I want to thank you all for your quick replies and info in return I’ll give you this novel:

My wrangler has a I6, but I use Mobil 1 synthetic and have a K&N air filter in it. In the current cold weather with the hard top on I can get close to 19mpg if I keep my city driving down and keep the cruse set at 65mph on the highway but I think my speedometer reads about 3-5mpg faster then what I’m going. But I think I’m really averaging like 17 mpg now.
A guy I work with said he gets something like 18mpg or so on the highway in his 03 KJ and his wife can squeeze 20 or 21 out of it. His is an automatic so I figured I could get something better out of a 6 speed.
I don't mind keeping my speed down on my commute unless a game goes late and I don't leave work till 10pm then I floor it to get home to the girlfriend. Leaving for work 15min earlier than I need isn't a problem but like mattb said it when I’m in a hurry it hurts.
The lease on my apartment is up in may and the girlfriend said she's up to moving between the two cities we work in to cut my commute time and save on rent so in that situation fuel economy isn't as much of an issue.
Even if the ground clearance is more like 6" I’m sure the Libby would do better when sent to cover a flood then trying to ford the water in a 300C :-k
The main reason I started to waffle on the diesel/gasoline thing was because the dealer put it to me this way, "the diesel will add 3,000 to the price and 3,000 will buy a lot of gas." I guess it one of those fuzzy math things but it made me think and go hummm. Also on occasion I like to do some light-moderate off-roading but mainly beach/sand stuff.

I’ll put my TJ specs in my signature.
 

matt2wheels

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diesel opinions...

Got an '02 gas KJ, just got it, love it. My work truck is a Duramax. I will never own a diesel vehicle again, and it's not because of that truck---the Duramax/Allison has got to be one of the best setups ever engineered. It will pull your house off it's foundations. It's the fact that EVERY time I fill up diesel is 10 cents more than premium gas, and it costs 70-80 bucks. So, that diesel option is $3,000 and you're burning fuel that costs probably 30-40 cents a gallon more and gaining maybe 3-4 mpg on an ideal day. I don't see the advantage. I got my Duramax just at the end of the time when diesel was less than gas, AS IT SHOULD BE for crying out loud it's one of the easiest things to refine, but as long as the oil companies decide to put the screws down on this diesel thing a diesel engine does not pencil. Sit down and do the math, figure fuel cost, initial investment and interest on the investment, and it just won't pencil. If you LIKE diesels, great, go for it, but if you think you're saving money you're deceiving yourself.

Hybrids are the same thing--Edmunds crunched the numbers and they figured you're going to spend about $5,000 more than a regular car over the typical ownership lifespan. It *****, but cars just cost money to run. If you want something with creature comforts I'd get a Liberty, but I sure wouldn't do it on the basis of fuel economy if you're getting 19 on a Wrangler.

You guys should try running tractors that burn 250 gallons a day, it's great. friggen oil companies. I still maintain that the ultimate renewable resource is politicians and tree huggers. We can burn them in steam generators to make electricity. There will always be plenty to replace the ones we harvest to prevent them from overpopulating their ecosystem.

BTW I've heard that Jack in the Box antenna balls help fuel economy--and cell phone reception.
 

GoldBug

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Closest thing to Jack in the Box here is Hardie's and thinking of eating there gives me the gibblies.

I had a feeling you'd understand my position, grogiefrog. Do you have anything like a K&N filter or use synthetic oil in it? I noticed that i got better mileage after i took off the "T" style hood cover off that my father had on it. That thing flapped around like... like, like a fish out of water after i hit 60.

I love the TJ but there's a few things that are getting to me and it's at 87,000 miles now. Things i don't care for that i think a KJ would fix:
1. wind noise (when i test drove a CRD the slight engine noise at take off was nothing compared to the wind noise in the wrangler 90% of the time)
2. water tightness... camera equipment & water don't mix and a jeep that leaks doesn't help.
3. passenger/cargo space.
4. I'll probably never buy a 2 door car, such a pain to get in the back.
:-({|=
 

-=JoN=-

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forgot to mention..I use Mobil 1/Pure 1 for my oil/filter combo. K and N Drop in panel filter, and i pump me air about 36-38 PSi.
Also just went to Bosch Platinum 4's for sparks

I did get a gain in MPG after all that stuff. the best i got highway was like 23 (this was after the 2nd fill up and about 4 or so hours into it)

I also have the bull bars, and side steps, so, i have added drag ....
and like i mentioned before...too much stop and go traffic really kills my mpg...

btw.....(a touch out of subject)

just wondering, what equipment do u use?....(body, lenses..etc)
trying to kinda get in that business (not necessarily photo journalism, but as a photographer in general)...
 

GoldBug

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I don't think I'll be adding much more than some bigger fog lights, will have to see what the strongest WV allows, and maybe step bars. I don't have a bike anymore since I rearended my father on the way home from the beach in Aug. He had a bike rack on the trunk of his few year old seabring someone cut him off while on the Chesapeak Bay bridge/tunnel. wasn't much damage just a new bumper grill and a lil paint work. Wasn't going that fast when he stoped me. So i doubt i'll add a bike rack. The girlfriend has a kayak back at her parent's in NY but we've got nowhere to store it in the apartment.

Well JoN I have my own Nikon D100, SB-800 flash, 28mm 1:2.8 Nikon lens and a 60mm Nikon lens with macro.
My newspaper supplied me with a Nikon D2h a beat up sigma 17-28 or 38 that I rarely use (don't like the look of wide angle anymore), a Nikon 70-200 1:2.8 ED lens with Vibration Reduction. I only use the VR when shooting a 5k or race from the back of a pickup.
I love the D100 for the 6.2megapix but it's rapid fire ***** but at the last newspaper i worked at the D1h they gave me went nuts and i had to use my D100 and got really good at shooting sports with it.
The D2h is nice but they now sell it as a D2hs with upgraded firmware and price. It shoots fast and now I shoot everything in RAW format because the ability to adjust the image later is well worth the loss of frame count on a 1G flash card.
The SB-800 rocks but that's just because i'm really starting to understand how to work with flash.
If you check out that sportsshooter link at the bottom every image you see in my gallery was shot for work with the D2h. I've been shooting high school basketball almost 5 nights a week and have ben making some great images that i'll need to post on SS soon.
 

skipperb

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We have both and I will always use the Liberty for work and for traveling
The Liberty is nice for keeping my computer stuf for work and it is quiter
It will pull my camper a lot easier than the TJ Unlimited. It will go just about anywhere the Unlimited will,Wife likes the unlimited because she can put the top down.If I had to have just one it would be the Liberty.
 

-=JoN=-

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still didnt jump to digital, been using Pentax bodie's w/ sigma lenses...
thats until I saw the D200. =P~
gonna trade in my film and jump to nikon (i'll get a film body again later on)
if i'm not mistaken the D2h is full frame....and the d100 is apc size?.....is it affecting u in anyway?....
 

grogiefrog

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GoldBug said:
I had a feeling you'd understand my position, grogiefrog. Do you have anything like a K&N filter or use synthetic oil in it? I noticed that i got better mileage after i took off the "T" style hood cover off that my father had on it. That thing flapped around like... like, like a fish out of water after i hit 60.

I'm only at 1200 miles so far, after almost three months. I think I'll change the oil to synthetic at 1500 since I don't drive it a lot (in fact I've already bought it, Mobile 1).

GoldBug said:
I love the TJ but there's a few things that are getting to me and it's at 87,000 miles now. Things i don't care for that i think a KJ would fix:
1. wind noise (when i test drove a CRD the slight engine noise at take off was nothing compared to the wind noise in the wrangler 90% of the time)
I've read that guys say when you are on the highway with the top off, to wear ear-plugs! I just have a hard top at the moment... but I plan on getting a soft top for weekend trips to the woods.

I did test drive a CRD and I really liked it. It's fun to drive a diesel. But like I said, I'm working at home at the moment, so MPG doesn't matter much to me.

GoldBug said:
2. water tightness... camera equipment & water don't mix and a jeep that leaks doesn't help.
I left my TJ at the airport for two days recently. While I was gone it rained really hard, and I had two puddles on each front floor mat. Fortunately I installed all weather floor mats. I'm not sure where it came in from? I would say the firewall, as the doors and top seem to be sealed real well. I might take it to the dealer later, but I'd like to see if I can pin point it so they don't rip everything up looking.

GoldBug said:
3. passenger/cargo space.
No kids yet, but I could see that would be a problem as space is limited.

GoldBug said:
4. I'll probably never buy a 2 door car, such a pain to get in the back.
My wife and I, before our two Jeeps, we had to four-door Hondas. Same reason.
 

GoldBug

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First the important issue:
still didnt jump to digital, been using Pentax bodie's w/ sigma lenses...
thats until I saw the D200.
gonna trade in my film and jump to nikon (i'll get a film body again later on)
I sugggest you not sell your film equip for digital. most of the photogs i'vbe talked to that did that regret it now. Me, I didn't pick up an SLR until sometime around early 2000 when I took my first photo class as a sophomore art major. Learned how to shoot on a nikon n60 with black and white, developed it myself and printed it myself. Now 6 years later I'm a full time photog for a paper with about 15,000 circ. And to tell you the truth JoN I don't know much about digital, eventhough I should. So i don't know if the d100 is apc or not but i think the guy at work who has a Libby just got a d200 i'll ask and see what he thinks of it.

I think this past summer (April-late Sept) when i had the soft top on I may have had the top down all of a collective week. maybe a good 3-4 day run there. I was going to keep the hard top on this summer but i don't think that will be up to me now.

I wear earplugs when i shoot concerts and cheering competitions but not when i drive the TJ w/o doors and top on the highway.

Yeah my TJ leaks under the dash where yours does grogiefrog. I'm sure that jeep knows it as problem and should should take it to a dealer if the warranty is still good on your take it to the dealer. also check this
http://www.myjeeprocks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3409
I took off the cowl and nothings clogged. i think it might be seals in the firewall or that seam above the Jeep on the sides infront of the doors.

Same here grogie, no kids. i'll be 25 on the 9th and if i wasn't looking to get a new car i'd be looking at rings for the girlfriend but hopefully no kids till after that. [-( Just liked having 4 doors when i had my cirrus and my girl has an S10 with a small cab so someone's gotta have a good grocery getter. #-o She likes the liberty as well maybe someday we'll have twin Libbies.
 

cowcatcher

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A couple of CRD considerations.

Yes the diesel is a little more and diesel is higher priced but the service intervals are longer on the diesel and if you keep your stuff well maintained the diesel engine will live twice as long as the gas. If we would all switch to diesel we would see about a 25% increase in our fuel supply and the cost of diesel would drop compared to gas. In refining crude oil you can get about 20% more diesel than gas and diesel engines provide more power and mileage. If the far east decides to stop shipping oil I can always use Wesson Oil. Bottom line is that you can calculate te issue any way you want and get a different answer. I personally would not have purchased a Liberty if it had not had the CRD available.
 

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