longshotz
New Member
Replaced Michelin LTX AT that were down to 10% remaining tread Sept. '14. Since then have put 10,000 KM (yeah, I'm a canuck) on them. Heres the scoop.
Chose the Toyo P225/75/16 size, reasoning that the narrower 225 width would assist in better fuel economy. The 80000KM mileage warranty and highly aggresive price clinched it. Looked at Hercules Terra Trac II in same size and couldn't get enough input via forums to make an informed decision.
A late Sept moose hunt into some seriously rough roads-we needed generous amounts of shovel work to sometimes make passage-put the Liberty and the Toyos to the test; both were up to the task with flying colors. The main roads were hard packed gravel and dirt. Little rain was encountered so I cannot comment on the mud traction issue suffice to say what (little) gumbo we encountered we cleared with nary a missed beat, thanks in part to the Traction Control feature on the '06 Liberty; not to take away from the Toyos they dug in where I thought they wouldn't TC notwithstanding. About the only shortcoming here was wet grass with an underlying soft dirt base. The Toyos spun easily and rapidly filled up with clods of grass and dirt. Four wheel was often needed to get us going in those circumstances.
We live on the west coast near Vancouver so rain, often sustained and heavy, is a constant. Wet traction at highway speeds is superb with little or no hydroplaning evident. When I got adventurous testing the Toyos on rain soaked pavement the ESP took over compensating for the traction differential. The downside being that the Toyos never really got to show their stuff. Turning off the ESP produced some noticeable hydroplaning on flooded roads with standing water. *Note that this was a managed test* The degree of control was more than adequate in those conditions. Needless to say that similar unmanaged conditions might have had much more serious consequences. Bottom line here is driver competance. Technology is no substitute for safe practices.
Local off-roading here one encounters rock base and gravel filler, lots of washboard, potholes and exposed base layer of larger rock caused by heavy rain washing out the gravel filler. Haven't phased the tires. Traction has been awesome on both wet and dry conditions. Some serious exposed rock but sensible driving habits will keep you from grief by way of rock slashed tires.
Fuel economy on the hunting trip was excellent averaging 13.6L/100 KM or 18.2 MPG (US) overall. This was a combination of fully loaded hwy. driving towing a boat trailer, 14 jon boat, 18 HP motor, 40 gal. spare gas and enough moose hunting gear for 2 people through central BC from Mission to the Nation lakes (for those who wish to "google earth" the route) at about 55-60 MPH., lightly loaded off road in easy to difficult conditions included. It would be irresponsible of me to say how much influence the tires were to that, but no doubt there was some. Nonetheless, I am experiencing no improvement to fuel economy in my daily routine of combined city/hwy. over the previous worn Michelins; 320 Mi. to about 17 US gal
Snow has yet to be encountered.
Handling on pavement seems no different than the with the Michelins. Intuitively this seems wrong, but I can't detect any difference in my day to day routine. Perhaps a skid pad or test track may prove different; but how many of us encounter skid pads or test tracks daily? Obviously the difference would be there in (a sudden change of) driving conditions, but one needs to be aware of that and make appropriate adjustments.
Road noise seems the only issue with the Toyos. Initially they were whisper quiet on the highway and around town. About the 9000KM mark that changed quite suddenly. At that point some rumbling devleoped at about 80 KmH (50 MPH for you south of the 49th) that ceased around 100 KmH. This same rumbling, though markedly less, was noticeable starting at 26 KmH ceasing at 40. I suspected driveshaft imbalance since the underside had been scraped several times on the hunting trip.
With rotation at 10000 Km the noise abatted except for the low speed rumble that while considerably less, hadn't fully gone. On the highway it essentially was non-existent. Will it return at another 9000 KM?
As always hindsight is 20/20 and in retrospect I may have passed on the Toyos favoring another brand even if for the noise issue only. That said there is no way to know that other brands would not also have developed a noise. Let me say here lest you think that noise and noise alone is a deciding factor. Not so.
We all think that some brand will "do better" than another; its human nature because thats what we do, make judgements. The difference of Toyo vs. Michelin vs. Bridgestone vs. Goodyear etc. in our typicall daily driving routine is, in my experience, negligeable.
The Toyos remain an entirely satisfactory selection for me albeit a lower noise level would make it a 10 out of 10. As is I rate this tire at an 8.
By the way we did get a 1200 lb.bull.
Chose the Toyo P225/75/16 size, reasoning that the narrower 225 width would assist in better fuel economy. The 80000KM mileage warranty and highly aggresive price clinched it. Looked at Hercules Terra Trac II in same size and couldn't get enough input via forums to make an informed decision.
A late Sept moose hunt into some seriously rough roads-we needed generous amounts of shovel work to sometimes make passage-put the Liberty and the Toyos to the test; both were up to the task with flying colors. The main roads were hard packed gravel and dirt. Little rain was encountered so I cannot comment on the mud traction issue suffice to say what (little) gumbo we encountered we cleared with nary a missed beat, thanks in part to the Traction Control feature on the '06 Liberty; not to take away from the Toyos they dug in where I thought they wouldn't TC notwithstanding. About the only shortcoming here was wet grass with an underlying soft dirt base. The Toyos spun easily and rapidly filled up with clods of grass and dirt. Four wheel was often needed to get us going in those circumstances.
We live on the west coast near Vancouver so rain, often sustained and heavy, is a constant. Wet traction at highway speeds is superb with little or no hydroplaning evident. When I got adventurous testing the Toyos on rain soaked pavement the ESP took over compensating for the traction differential. The downside being that the Toyos never really got to show their stuff. Turning off the ESP produced some noticeable hydroplaning on flooded roads with standing water. *Note that this was a managed test* The degree of control was more than adequate in those conditions. Needless to say that similar unmanaged conditions might have had much more serious consequences. Bottom line here is driver competance. Technology is no substitute for safe practices.
Local off-roading here one encounters rock base and gravel filler, lots of washboard, potholes and exposed base layer of larger rock caused by heavy rain washing out the gravel filler. Haven't phased the tires. Traction has been awesome on both wet and dry conditions. Some serious exposed rock but sensible driving habits will keep you from grief by way of rock slashed tires.
Fuel economy on the hunting trip was excellent averaging 13.6L/100 KM or 18.2 MPG (US) overall. This was a combination of fully loaded hwy. driving towing a boat trailer, 14 jon boat, 18 HP motor, 40 gal. spare gas and enough moose hunting gear for 2 people through central BC from Mission to the Nation lakes (for those who wish to "google earth" the route) at about 55-60 MPH., lightly loaded off road in easy to difficult conditions included. It would be irresponsible of me to say how much influence the tires were to that, but no doubt there was some. Nonetheless, I am experiencing no improvement to fuel economy in my daily routine of combined city/hwy. over the previous worn Michelins; 320 Mi. to about 17 US gal
Snow has yet to be encountered.
Handling on pavement seems no different than the with the Michelins. Intuitively this seems wrong, but I can't detect any difference in my day to day routine. Perhaps a skid pad or test track may prove different; but how many of us encounter skid pads or test tracks daily? Obviously the difference would be there in (a sudden change of) driving conditions, but one needs to be aware of that and make appropriate adjustments.
Road noise seems the only issue with the Toyos. Initially they were whisper quiet on the highway and around town. About the 9000KM mark that changed quite suddenly. At that point some rumbling devleoped at about 80 KmH (50 MPH for you south of the 49th) that ceased around 100 KmH. This same rumbling, though markedly less, was noticeable starting at 26 KmH ceasing at 40. I suspected driveshaft imbalance since the underside had been scraped several times on the hunting trip.
With rotation at 10000 Km the noise abatted except for the low speed rumble that while considerably less, hadn't fully gone. On the highway it essentially was non-existent. Will it return at another 9000 KM?
As always hindsight is 20/20 and in retrospect I may have passed on the Toyos favoring another brand even if for the noise issue only. That said there is no way to know that other brands would not also have developed a noise. Let me say here lest you think that noise and noise alone is a deciding factor. Not so.
We all think that some brand will "do better" than another; its human nature because thats what we do, make judgements. The difference of Toyo vs. Michelin vs. Bridgestone vs. Goodyear etc. in our typicall daily driving routine is, in my experience, negligeable.
The Toyos remain an entirely satisfactory selection for me albeit a lower noise level would make it a 10 out of 10. As is I rate this tire at an 8.
By the way we did get a 1200 lb.bull.
