Sea Sick

[Adam Roby]

Disclaimer: I know nothing about suspensions so please don't flame me too much. A little is fine...

Is it possible for a shock/strut/coil spring to go bad suddenly or within a very short time?

I have been driving my Jeep since last August (8-9 months) and the ride has been fine (as in 10-year old shocks and springs fine - not good but not unmanageable). I do have plans to do a full upgrade, but was hoping to hold it off for a while. Very recently, as in within the past 2 weeks maybe, the ride has gone from not great to almost impossible to handle. It take me 15 minutes to get to work and I want to barf by the time I get here. My wife and daughter now refuse to get in with me... hell, I would almost rather take my wife's Corolla over the Jeep.

• Besides the obvious, shock and coils etc., can anything else be wrong here? I don't really know what links and sway bars do, I don't see anything dangling or obviously loose under the truck. Suggestions for things to look for?
• Can a suspension or at least 1 item go bad suddenly and affect the entire ride to make you want to barf?
• I guess its impossible to know if its the front or back that is causing the sickness, any easy way to check which end is worse?
• Am I missing anything else here?
• If the OME full upgrade is the only solution, how many hours total to install (I would probably need a garage to do it for me, need to estimate costs). My garage isn't nearly large enough, my back hasn't healed enough from surgery, and I don't have enough quality tools.

This morning's ride almost made me regret getting the truck.
I need to either find a solution or swap for something else... I am simply too nauseous to continue driving this thing. What the hell... 1 month ago it was "fine".

 

[LibertyTC]

After 10 years and by looking at your Avatar, the suspension is way sagged/overdue for replacement.
Coil bind/stacking is now possible. Look at the springs, are the two top rings in front for instance both compressed together?
Is the Jeep pulling to one side or hard to turn/handle now?
When was the last time you had things looked over with an alignment done?

 

[Adam Roby]

Thanks for the reply. The avatar may be misleading because the driveway is on an angle, but I am pretty sure it can use a full replacement.

These were the measurements I took last week. Doesn't seem as bad as some others I have seen, unfortunately I have no history for the vehicle so I can only assume it is all original.

Front Left =18 1/4"
Front Right =18 3/8"
Back Left =18 3/4"
Back Right =18 9/16"

It does not seem to pull to either side. I had the rear upper control arm changed last fall because the bushing were all finished, and the tread wear is even across the tires although I did notice the rear wearing much faster than the front (and I do not do burn outs) so that is a bit odd. I had two independent garages look over the truck before the winter just because I am neurotic and everything else "looked" ok.

I will check for binding/stacking on the coil this weekend.

I did not do an alignment... yet. Might need to swap out the suspension and then do one. Just don't know what else I need other than the suspension... when I read everyone's text in their signatures I see all kind of things mentioned, top plates, spacers, a-arms, etc.

 

[jja]

The chances are your shocks/struts are gone. Your springs have sagged some but that won't cause the barf effect. Shocks/struts is what prevents the truck from oscillating on the springs all the time. If you remove them (in fact removing just two out of four is enough) you get exactly the kind of ride you describe. Springy

Probably one of them got bad but if it happens over time it's hard to feel it. Then another one started deteriorating and after certain point you ended up where you are now.

The rear ones are extremely easy to replace. You can do it yourself in your driveway. It's a matter of unscrewing two bolts on each side. For the fronts you need the right kind of spring compressor and it's kinda dangerous so you'd better have a shop do this for you.

If you get to the fronts it might be a good time to put a lift. You are going to pay for the labor anyways.

Last but not least, whatever you do don't get Ironman rear shocks - http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f203/rear-end-knock-after-ironman-lift-59235/.

 

[Adam Roby]

Thanks for the reply, I read your thread and will steer clear of the Ironman rear shocks since they could be problematic.

 

[dude1116]

Other things to check are the rear upper control arm. Those bushings being shot can lead to a "loose rear-end" type of feeling - swaying. Other issues could be inner tie rod ends (any steering knocking sounds?) or bad steering rack bushings. All of the above will cause your Jeep to sway. I HATE driving my Jeep on the highway. Until I get a new power steering rack (it's leaking) and rear upper control arm, it's going to be that way.

 

[CalcityRenegade]

I would also have a look at your rear upper control arm (Boomerang) while you are at it. The ball joint on mine completely disconnected from the rear diff and caused quite the boat motion even on the flattest of terrain. It however was associated with a nice clunk over bumps when the ball joint would make contact with the top side of the rear diff. If the ball joint/Control arm gave up the ghost it could explain your sudden issues. That or the suspension has gradually failed until you immediately noticed (Such as Tim stated). The way I found that my ball joint/control arm had failed but the symptoms as well as putting my KJ on a lift and watching the rear diff lower and swing forwards lol. Also check the control arm bushings as stated by dude1116!

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

The short answer to your question - Yes, a suspension component can suddenly go bad and create the "barf effect" you're experiencing.

Without seeing your KJ I would guess that one or more of the shocks has given up the ghost and failed. The shocks (more accurately called "dampers" across the pond) prevent the vehicle from bouncing up and down on the springs. Without the shocks the vehicle and it's wheels would bounce uncontrollably.

If one of the shocks broke or the internal valving disintegrated it would no longer control the bounce and you will experience the effect you describe. The others have posted other things to check as well.

Its not always accurate but push down ******* each corner of your Jeep. If it bounces more than once the shock on that corner is bad. You may have to put a lot of butt behind the push to do the test. Let us know what you find and keep us posted!

Bob

 

[EvilSnipa]

I had never done struts before, I had no idea what I was getting into.I found they are very simple, 2 hours to do first side and 45 minutes for the other. And did it in my driveway. Not sure what a garage would charge. I just like to try things myself.

 

[Adam Roby]

I had never done struts before, I had no idea what I was getting into.I found they are very simple, 2 hours to do first side and 45 minutes for the other. And did it in my driveway. Not sure what a garage would charge. I just like to try things myself.

Do you mean changing a set of quick struts, or using a compression tool and assembling the strut and coil yourself?

I changed a spring off my Mercury Mistake (Mystique) a few years back. The coil had cracked in the middle. I used a compression tool but because of the crack it was unstable and "exploded" is the best term I can come up with. It blew out of the vehicle, sliced my hand open pretty badly, and all but implanted into the wall of my garage. At first there was shock... then a ton of blood... then pain (I thought my hand was broken). I wish Beilstein or OME sold a standard length quick strut assembly... I would try that on my own but not sure I want to repeat the coil compression experience I had.

 

[EvilSnipa]

Yeah they were quick struts but I went ahead and changed lower ball joints and tiered ends while it was apart.

Yeah man that's crazy! I'm no mechanic so I wouldn't mess with that type of stuff lol

 

[Adam Roby]

Was that in your Liberty or another vehicle?
Which quick struts did you install?

 

[tommudd]

Do you mean changing a set of quick struts, or using a compression tool and assembling the strut and coil yourself?

I changed a spring off my Mercury Mistake (Mystique) a few years back. The coil had cracked in the middle. I used a compression tool but because of the crack it was unstable and "exploded" is the best term I can come up with. It blew out of the vehicle, sliced my hand open pretty badly, and all but implanted into the wall of my garage. At first there was shock... then a ton of blood... then pain (I thought my hand was broken). I wish Beilstein or OME sold a standard length quick strut assembly... I would try that on my own but not sure I want to repeat the coil compression experience I had.

Easy take it to a shop to be compressed, all of the ones we lifted here have been , well except for one

 

[Adam Roby]

Easy take it to a shop to be compressed, all of the ones we lifted here have been , well except for one

I want to find a shop I can trust... I imagine they could do it wrong or not align things properly. But yeah, that is probably the route I will be taking.

 

[BorincanoKJ]

Reading this thread i have too work on something similar in the coming days, that i feel that the back of my rig is pulling little to the side. I made the approach to a mechanic friend of mine and he told me to go through the workshop. When he checked he told me you have the rear lower control arms bushing broken. Verify that parts it could be broken.

Regards

 

[tommudd]

Everytime I see this post I have to laugh because I think of one of my favorite singers/performers, .....Seasick Steve!


But as far as the ride and handling go
Rear UCA will give you a clunking pretty bad before it goes completely out
Rear LCAs will sway back and forth on roads especially ones that big trucks have grooved out where they run, also turns somewhat
If a shock blows out there should be some oil on it, and it would tend to cause a more up/down sideways feel at times
Lots of things that could be , only would take one along with a worn out suspension to make it feel that way
Heck I swapped mine out at 20,000 miles due to the way the thing handled on the highway , crappy at best even then

 

[Adam Roby]

For the record, the rear upper control arm was changed in the fall because I could literally put my finger through the center bushing.

The lower control arms I need to have another look at... I noticed the rubber looked cracked but was not sure how to really check it for looseness. I guess I could pry with a bar and see if there is any movement. I have seen a few YouTube videos of guys swapping out just the bushings using a small press tool that you can rent (for free) from a parts place. Is this doable on a Liberty? Is this cost effective (maybe replace with poly bushings) or do most people swap the arm itself?

I would like to eventually swap out all bushings, do it in steps if possible... are there kits that anyone recommends?

 

[tommudd]

For the record, the rear upper control arm was changed in the fall because I could literally put my finger through the center bushing.

The lower control arms I need to have another look at... I noticed the rubber looked cracked but was not sure how to really check it for looseness. I guess I could pry with a bar and see if there is any movement. I have seen a few YouTube videos of guys swapping out just the bushings using a small press tool that you can rent (for free) from a parts place. Is this doable on a Liberty? Is this cost effective (maybe replace with poly bushings) or do most people swap the arm itself?

I would like to eventually swap out all bushings, do it in steps if possible... are there kits that anyone recommends?

Lower control arms are cheap really , but to check have someone roll the KJ back and forth and lay under neath looking at the bushings as the LCA moves, if bad you'll see a lot of movement

 

[Adam Roby]

Lower control arms are cheap really , but to check have someone roll the KJ back and forth and lay under neath looking at the bushings as the LCA moves, if bad you'll see a lot of movement

Cool, thanks.

Wow, I sent an email to the garage I have been going to for my transmission and asked about the front suspension (more for curiosity).

"...complete shocks with the springs & top plate for 260$ each side, plus 2 hours labor 178$ plus alignment for 79$ + all the taxes."

With Quebec sales tax, that works out to a bill of $893.36... and that is just for the front, and most likely for Monroe quick struts. Holy mother....

The OME kit is sounding better and better.
I need to just man up and do the work myself.

 

[dude1116]

Cool, thanks.

Wow, I sent an email to the garage I have been going to for my transmission and asked about the front suspension (more for curiosity).



With Quebec sales tax, that works out to a bill of $893.36... and that is just for the front, and most likely for Monroe quick struts. Holy mother....

The OME kit is sounding better and better.
I need to just man up and do the work myself.

It's not too hard. Once you do it once, you'll be able to fly through it. Take your time at one corner. Ask us questions when you need help. Go slow. And speed up after you've done it once or twice before.