Possible Recall 2002-2007?

Jaber

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Just saw this today..

http://media.chrysler.com/newsrelease.do;jsessionid=D0E09EA006A313B2A0E67A69F2129821?&id=14371&mid=2

Chrysler Group LLC Responds to NHTSA Recall Letter
June 4, 2013 , Auburn Hills, Mich. - NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) has issued a recall request letter proposing that Chrysler Group recall the Jeep Grand Cherokee in model years 1993 to 2004 and the Jeep Liberty in model years 2002 to 2007 (a total of approximately 2.7 million vehicles).

Chrysler Group has been working and sharing data with the Agency on this issue since September 2010. The company does not agree with NHTSA’s conclusions and does not intend to recall the vehicles cited in the investigation. The subject vehicles are safe and are not defective.

We believe NHTSA’s initial conclusions are based on an incomplete analysis of the underlying data, and we are committed to continue working with the Agency to resolve this disagreement.

“The safety of drivers and passengers has long been the first priority for Chrysler brands and that commitment remains steadfast,” said Sergio Marchionne, Chairman and CEO of Chrysler Group LLC. “The company stands behind the quality of its vehicles. All of us remain committed to continue working with NHTSA to provide information confirming the safety of these vehicles.”

Chrysler Group’s position on this matter is clear.

These vehicles met and exceeded all applicable requirements of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, including FMVSS 301, pertaining to fuel-system integrity. Our analysis shows the incidents, which are the focus of this request, occur less than once for every million years of vehicle operation. This rate is similar to comparable vehicles produced and sold during the time in question.

Chrysler Group stands behind the quality and safety of its vehicles. It conducts voluntary recalls when they are warranted, and in most cases, before any notice or investigation request from NHTSA.

Customers who have questions or concerns can call the Chrysler Group’s customer care line: 1-800-334-9200.
 

tjkj2002

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All over the stupid gas tank location:beatdeadhorse5:


Where is the recall for all Wranglers till '06? How about many of the GM's pickups and SUV's with rear tanks? How about Ford pickups with rear tanks? How about Suzuki SUV's? All have rear mounted gas tanks.
 

k99jk99j

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this is very unusual! i have never heard of a vehicle that has made it all the way through production 1993-2004 grand and they want to recall them. we are talking 20 years ago.

certainly if this was a rampant problem they would have noticed it before 2010
 

JeepJeepster

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Why arent the xj's in there?

Unless i get a free skid plate, im taking neither the zj or the kj in for that recall. I like where the gas tanks are.
 

tjkj2002

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this is very unusual! i have never heard of a vehicle that has made it all the way through production 1993-2004 grand and they want to recall them. we are talking 20 years ago.

certainly if this was a rampant problem they would have noticed it before 2010
It's been in the news off and on for the last 8 years or so,pops up in different parts of the country most likely from TJ and XJ lovers that think if it's not a TJ or XJ it's not a Jeep.

Funny thing is Fiat will not have to cover the recall,our tax dollars will since Fiat does not have to pay for the old Chryslers faults unless they choose to.Part of the buyout agreement from a federal judge.If it actually does go through it may just end up like the GM saddle tank recall,you get a $1000 voucher on a purchase of a new vehicle made by the same company.
 

martin_metal_88

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Pretty sure the NHTSA will fight until chrysler decide to recall or will ask the tribunal to force them to recall. Now let's hope the solution is a skid plate and they will do the same in canada :D
 

tjkj2002

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Pretty sure the NHTSA will fight until chrysler decide to recall or will ask the tribunal to force them to recall. Now let's hope the solution is a skid plate and they will do the same in canada :D
If they wanted to Fiat could null and void ownership if they are forced and Chrysler would be no more,no parts,no dealerships,no warranty,and then no recall.


What poeple will say and do for free crap.All everyone wants is free,free,and free and they wonder why this world has gone to s**t.Man up and live with it.All effected vehicles passed all safety tests by NHTSA at there time of production.Not there fault NHTSA doubled the speeds for new safety standards after these vehicles stopped production.
 
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Drucifer

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Chrysler Balks at Recall

Chrysler Refuses to Recall 2.7 Million Jeep SUVs

In a rare rebuff of the U.S. government, Chrysler Group is refusing a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration request for a recall of 2.7 million SUVs.

You must be registered for see images attach

The government agency says the gas tank design used in 1993 to 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokees and 2002 to 2007 Jeep Libertys is unsafe.

[SNIP]

READ MORE
 
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brokendad

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Sure sounds like a bunch of _ to me. My Liberty has a skid plate over it and that is all that is needed. You can't make everything safe and sanitary and the Liberty is safe enough for me. By the way if you think you need a skid plate go buy one.
 

Dave

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If they wanted to Fiat could null and void ownership if they are forced and Chrysler would be no more,no parts,no dealerships,no warranty,and then no recall.


What poeple will say and do for free crap.All everyone wants is free,free,and free and they wonder why this world has gone to s**t.Man up and live with it.All effected vehicles passed all safety tests by NHTSA at there time of production.Not there fault NHTSA doubled the speeds for new safety standards after these vehicles stopped production.


Oh maaaannnnnn.....you are a killjoy. I was hoping for a couple of free new jeeps and a 6pak of little fiats and a big chocolate cake smothered with ice cream......:Big Laugh:


Dave
 

martin_metal_88

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If they wanted to Fiat could null and void ownership if they are forced and Chrysler would be no more,no parts,no dealerships,no warranty,and then no recall.


What poeple will say and do for free crap.All everyone wants is free,free,and free and they wonder why this world has gone to s**t.Man up and live with it.All effected vehicles passed all safety tests by NHTSA at there time of production.Not there fault NHTSA doubled the speeds for new safety standards after these vehicles stopped production.

Yeah sure, Fiat bought chrysler for a lot of money and just announced a 10 billion found to get the rest of the company but will denied the ownership over a recall...The point is not having free stuff, but you know as I do that the NHTSA liketo go all the way and there is no real other option than a skid plate to address this if they are forced to do the recall.

And next time, instead of being a jerk, if you are not happy just don't reply ok. It will make it better for every one.
 

tjkj2002

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Yeah sure, Fiat bought chrysler for a lot of money and just announced a 10 billion found to get the rest of the company but will denied the ownership over a recall...The point is not having free stuff, but you know as I do that the NHTSA liketo go all the way and there is no real other option than a skid plate to address this if they are forced to do the recall.

And next time, instead of being a jerk, if you are not happy just don't reply ok. It will make it better for every one.
I will not make it better for anyone as there is no problem in the 1st place and us the tax payers will just end up paying for it anyways.How will that help? Besides they already won once against NHTSA...............

The company previously refused a NHTSA request in 1996, when the agency asked it to recall 91,000 Dodge Stratus and Chrysler Cirrus cars for an alleged seat belt defect. NHTSA sued the company and won in federal court. But in 1998, an appeals court reversed the decision, saying NHTSA had unfairly held Chrysler to a new standard

Also like how NHTSA stated they did meet the requirements but that there requirements are bare min,who cares they all passed.

It's what 51 deaths out of 2.7 million vehicles? Anything that carries gas can and will catch fire and nothing you can do will ever change that.
 

MikeD-Chrysler

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More of Chrysler's side to NHTSA's recall request

Thanks to Jaber for starting the thread and others for chiming in.

As you digest the news reports coming out, I wanted to give you a link to Chrysler Group's response and why we disagree with NHTSA's position: http://www.chryslergroupllc.com/Inv...hryslerDocuments/NHTSARecallWhitePaperNew.pdf. (The three-page white paper is in addition to the news release Jaber posted.)

I can't answer any questions but wanted to be sure you get all sides of the issue.

If I can be of help on other issues, please let me know.
-Mike


Mike Driehorst
Chrysler Digital Media
Chrysler Group LLC
 

Awww KJ

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Thanks for the link Mike.

There has been a witchhunt on rear-mounted fuel tanks for quite some time. I've been rear-ended in a car whose platform got a lot of negative press over it. Good thing I leave space between my vehicle and the one in front and me and watch my mirrors. I let off the brakes, allowing her vehicle to bump and push mine forward. This instead of panicking and holding the brakes down for dear life.

No one else is going to say it in response to the quote late in article, but the mortality of a 4 year old depends on the parent or guardian driving. Not on an imaginary 100% safe vehicle. Fences around pools don't replace parenting. Seatbelts and airbags don't replace intelligent driving. Post-facto Naderistic (look who founded the NAS) recalls on fuel tanks don't replace post-collision common sense.
 

xIceHoundx

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Chrysler refuses jeep recall for KJs

Anyone else seen this?

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2388607

"Chrysler Group is taking the very rare step of defying the government by refusing to recall 2.7 million Jeeps that federal safety officials say are dangerous and should be recalled.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration sent the automaker a letter late Monday asking it to recall the 1993-2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee and the 2002-2007 Jeep Liberty. NHTSA says the rear-mounted gas tanks in those vehicles are too vulnerable to leaking and catching fire in a rear-end crash.

Chrysler said Tuesday it "disagrees with NHTSA's recall request," and won't honor it.

Government data show 44 deaths in 32 rear-end crashes and fires involving the Grand Cherokees that it wants recalled, and seven deaths in five Liberty rear-impact/fire crashes.

The infamous Ford Pinto and Mercury Bobcat gas tank fires in the 1970s involved 27 deaths in 38 rear-end impacts. Ford Motor recalled those in 1978.

Adjusted for the number of Jeeps on the road, the Grand Cherokees had a rear-crash fire death rate of just 1 per million registered vehicle years; the Liberty, 0.9

NHTSA says similar SUVs sold by other companies had rates of around 0.5, so the Jeeps "are poor performers." Chrysler says the numbers, and the differences among them, are so tiny that they are statistically meaningless.

The unusual public argument is the latest step in a Jeep probe that NHTSA began in August 2010, after a 2009 request by the Center for Auto Safety, an advocacy group.

"NHTSA hopes that Chrysler will reconsider its position and take action to protect its customers and the driving public," NHTSA administrator David Stickland said in a statement late Tuesday.

Chrysler said NHTSA's analysis is faulty. It didn't use all the available data, and it made some incorrect comparisons, the automaker said.

The government and the automaker now will exchange more information. NHTSA eventually could take Chrysler to court in an attempt to force a recall.

"Chrysler must feel like it has a compelling reason to take such a bold stand. Since Toyota was publicly humiliated for dragging its feet on recalls just a few years ago, automakers have been quick to recall vehicles at NHTSA's request," says Michelle Krebs, an auto industry analyst at researcher Edmunds.com.

"It's extraordinary for a manufacturer to refuse a recall request from NHTSA," says Allan Kam, a former NHTSA senior enforcement attorney. He foresees the automaker having to endure "a crescendo of adverse publicity" in "what will probably be a losing battle."

In what Chrysler called a "white paper" criticizing key points of the NHTSA investigation, the car company said: "After an exhaustive engineering analysis, Chrysler Group has found no evidence that the fuel systems in the subject vehicles are defective in either their design or manufacture. ... The 1993-2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee and 2002-2007 Jeep Liberty are among the safest vehicles of their era."

Chrysler notes that the Jeep models were popular and their high numbers on the road would naturally lead to more incidents.

NHTSA did not identify a remedy for the tank positioning. It normally doesn't press for a recall unless the automaker has a remedy for the alleged problem.

In fact, there might be no real "fix" for a rear-mounted fuel tank. Relocating it under the vehicle would involve re-engineering the tank and the underbody of the vehicle. Or using a different rear tank that somehow could be tucked in differently. But testing to see if a change actually improved a rate as low as one deadly incident per million registered vehicle years could be impossible.

Chrysler presumably could make the problem go away by buying back the 2.7 million vehicles. Probably unaffordable. Most are new enough to be worth at least several thousand dollars. Even if an average buy-back price were as low as $1,000, that's still $2.7 billion, and that's more than the $1.7 billion Chrysler earned all of last year.

Most newer vehicles, including Jeeps, now have tanks mounted ahead of the rear axle, suggesting that has become the acknowledged standard.

The automaker noted that the Jeeps more than met the safety regulations of the time, and said, "NHTSA seems to be holding Chrysler Group to a new standard for fuel tank integrity that does not exist now, and did not exist when the Jeep vehicles were manufactured."

The last time Chrysler refused a NHTSA recall request was 1998, involving 1995 Dodge Stratus and Chrysler Cirrus mid-size sedans that NHTSA said had a fault with safety restraints. The agency did not force the recall.

General Motors in the 1990s refused to recall some 4 million of 1973 to 1987 pickups still on the road that were built with so-called sidesaddle gas tanks. The government and other critics said the tanks, situated outside the trucks' frame rails, were too vulnerable to damage in a side crash.

GM lost a $105 million lawsuit involving a death blamed on the tanks, but that was overturned on appeal and the government didn't sue to enforce a recall. GM offered $1,000 discount coupons to owners of the trucks who bought new GM pickups or vans.

The gasoline shortages in the U.S. in the 1970s and 1980s made the extra fuel capacity of the sidesaddle tanks a strong selling point, and GM sold some 9 million of the pickups before a redesign in 1988. Among other changes, that redesign relocated the tanks to a central spot, between the frame rails.

Gas tanks originally were moved to the vehicles' extremities because they'd been located near the occupants -- sitting totally exposed directly behind the passenger compartment in cars of the early 1900s.

But ever since the high-profile Pinto recall in 1978, NNHTSA said in its Monday recall letter to Chrysler, automakers have been moving to "designs in which fuel tanks were located in less vulnerable locations than behind the rear axle." The agency cited a 1978 Chrysler internal memo discussing the location of fuel tanks under the rear seat in its new Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon compacts, and the soon-to-be launched Dodge Aries and Plymouth Reliant K-cars.

The memo said: "This location provides the protection of all the structure behind the rear wheels -- as well as the rear wheels themselves -- to protect the tank from being damaged in a collision."

NHTSA's telling a company to perform a recall is nearly as remarkable as Chrysler's "no."

Almost always, the company and the government work out an agreement that lets the automaker announce a "voluntary recall" to fix an alleged safety problem. NHTSA's view has been that getting supposedly unsafe vehicles fixed is more important than who gets credit -- though the agency isn't shy about taking credit for the recalls later.

Automakers don't like to be seen as arguing in favor of potentially unsafe vehicles. And they know that federal regulators could make life difficult for companies that don't cooperate, perhaps by extraordinary scrutiny of other interactions between the automaker and the government. That would soak up more time and energy and, often, run up legal fees that an automaker prefers to avoid."
 

jbarthol

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Thinking free skid plates, and some bracing. The bigger thing is this includes Grand Cherokees going back to 93. Been a while since I've seen a anything that old get recalled.
 

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