Lifting a KJ or WK (both diesel), Which should I shoot for?

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Hey Guys, I'm stuck between deciding on buying a WK or KJ both diesel versions. I want to fit either 32/33x12.5R15s on the KJ or 32/33/35x12.5R17s on the WK (if i can i might even try to run 15 inch rims on the WK with a large negative offset to clear the brakes). With your knowledge, which would be easier and or more cost effective to accomplish? Im shooting for a 4" lift on both vehicles. Such kits are no longer made for the cars and basically i would have to piece my own together. I'm thinking of Using Monroe Load Adjusting Shocks(kj/wk specific) + OME 3060(880lb-in) in the rear. In the front i'm thinking a Bilstein 5100 adjustable strut(kj/wk specific) + OME 3112(975lb-in). 2 inch wheels spacers seem to negate rubbing.

my reasoning for picking such high spring rates is basically to maintain that 4" lift with added accessories/weight. Bumpers, winches, etc... If i'm understanding how spring rates work, i would require several hundreds lbs of additional weight to drop the selected springs 1".

Also another thing is, i can't seem to find any information on affordable programming devices for the KJ. I know this is a lot but would greatly appreciate any insight you have.
 

tommudd

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Hate to rain on your parade but you will never fit 33s on a KJ
PLUS you can not get gears low enough to run 33s
4 inch lifts are no longer available for the KJs
and your lbs on the springs are way way way off
The heaviest springs OME has for a KJ is 500 lb and 800 lb plus would be like riding in a buckboard
 
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Hate to rain on your parade but you will never fit 33s on a KJ
PLUS you can not get gears low enough to run 33s
4 inch lifts are no longer available for the KJs
and your lbs on the springs are way way way off
The heaviest springs OME has for a KJ is 500 lb and 800 lb plus would be like riding in a buckboard
Those are not KJ specific springs. They are for a different vehicle. But I’m of the assumption they are interchangeable (will fit). I’m not planning on changing the gearing. Diesel should have enough torque and I’m chasing more mpgs than performance. And I know 4” lift kits are no more I’m asking if one can be made using available springs, shocks, and struts.

Side note, dude on YouTube is running 33s with a 5” lift, but he’s done a 1” diff drop so far. But I’m not trying to do a diff drop unless I have to hence the desire for 4”.
 

tommudd

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My advice to you is to read read read
You are going about it all the wrong way
And yes running even 32s and not regearing on a CRD will cost you
I've lifted a few CRDs and regeared two of them which made a huge difference in overall driveability
Now on to springs, I tested the 500 lb 790s on my 04, which has aftermarket front and rear bumpers, rock rails, heavy skids tools etc and in no way shape or form do you want an 800 lb spring unless you plan on hauling 25,000 lbs
Junk you see on youtube is pieced together and most of the time only lasts a few weeks before it falls apart
diff drops opens a whole other set of things that make it undesirable to do
Been around long enough to see a lot of that
assumptions get you in trouble everytime

Now if you want to build a lawn ornament you are heading in the right direction
 
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My advice to you is to read read read
You are going about it all the wrong way
And yes running even 32s and not regearing on a CRD will cost you
I've lifted a few CRDs and regeared two of them which made a huge difference in overall driveability
Now on to springs, I tested the 500 lb 790s on my 04, which has aftermarket front and rear bumpers, rock rails, heavy skids tools etc and in no way shape or form do you want an 800 lb spring unless you plan on hauling 25,000 lbs
Junk you see on youtube is pieced together and most of the time only lasts a few weeks before it falls apart
diff drops opens a whole other set of things that make it undesirable to do
Been around long enough to see a lot of that
assumptions get you in trouble everytime

Now if you want to build a lawn ornament you are heading in the right direction
Okay that alleviates my fear of the lift dropping with extra weight. So then my question is, what do i have to do to accomplish 4 inches of lift on a CRD? I would very much not like to accomplish it with any lift spacers?

also i don't quite understand the need to regear lower. From my reading, the Grand Cherokee CRD 2007-2008 comes with a 3.73 like the Liberty, yet people are regearing it for 3.07 rather than lower gears.
 

tommudd

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Its way harder to lift a CRD KJ to 4 inches due to the way the front diff sits over towards the driver more than it does on gassers. This was done so that the CRD could be installed, makes the drivers side CV shorter thus at a steep angle when lifted ,
LOL on spacers , never use them they are total junk
You go lower gearing anytime you install larger tires, those that are going to higher are just stupid, PERIOD. Anyone with any common sense knows that increasing tire size takes more power to roll down the road .
So back to your original question, personally I would never lift a CRD to 4 inches, due to the CVs etc 3 inches is what I recommend, why is 4 so important ? Not that some haven't done it but the costs that it takes to get there is high
 
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Its way harder to lift a CRD KJ to 4 inches due to the way the front diff sits over towards the driver more than it does on gassers. This was done so that the CRD could be installed, makes the drivers side CV shorter thus at a steep angle when lifted ,
LOL on spacers , never use them they are total junk
You go lower gearing anytime you install larger tires, those that are going to higher are just stupid, PERIOD. Anyone with any common sense knows that increasing tire size takes more power to roll down the road .
So back to your original question, personally I would never lift a CRD to 4 inches, due to the CVs etc 3 inches is what I recommend, why is 4 so important ? Not that some haven't done it but the costs that it takes to get there is high
Idk 4 seemed like the number required for 33s but since you said 33s would never fit then I’m not married a 4” lift. So with a 3 inch I can comfortable run 32s?
 

tommudd

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You can, its tight with 32s and 3 inches but doable
pound over the pinch weld in the rear of the front wheelwells and a couple of other tricks
Go with the OME 790s in front, 948s in the rear
also in front run a 3/8 inch clevis lift will put you just over 3 inches
in the rear one extra upper iso per side
 
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You can, its tight with 32s and 3 inches but doable
pound over the pinch weld in the rear of the front wheelwells and a couple of other tricks
Go with the OME 790s in front, 948s in the rear
also in front run a 3/8 inch clevis lift will put you just over 3 inches
in the rear one extra upper iso per sid
 
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Okay that sounds like a plan;

******** with me real quick tho: is the Clevis lift require structurally?

what if I ran bilstein 5100s in the front at the lowest setting of 1”. Should give me 3.5” of lift with the HD spring (about .25” more than with the 4600 and clevis). Will that extra .25 destroy my CVs exponentially quicker?

In the rear, Monroe Load Levelers: 58649 with HD spring.

3.5” around.

will definitely need JBA arms for 3.25 (w/ clevis) or 3.5” (w/o Clevis) lift I’m assuming.

also will bump stops need to be extended?
 

tommudd

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NO on the Bilstein 5100s
can run the Monroes on the rear, I have but a shock DOES NOT provide lift, only springs provide lift, shocks just control bounce etc. You are wanting the shocks to do the work a springs does
Yes Teraflex bumpstops in front, 2 hockey pucks bolted down to the lower spring perch in the rear
 
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NO on the Bilstein 5100s
can run the Monroes on the rear, I have but a shock DOES NOT provide lift, only springs provide lift, shocks just control bounce etc. You are wanting the shocks to do the work a springs does
Yes Teraflex bumpstops in front, 2 hockey pucks bolted down to the lower spring perch in the rear
I’m aware that springs provide a significantly heaping amount of the lift, but the rear shocks can provide lift if greater than factory size: https://www.jeepkj.com/threads/monroe-load-adjusting-shocks-installed.56297/

this person found that just adding the Monroe’s gained them .5” alone. That’s the information I am working on. And this is information consistent with other platforms too: https://www.theultimatejeep.com/showthread.php?697-Installed-Monroe-Load-Leveling-Shocks-on-Rear

once again, they gained .5” inches from the Monroe’s. And .5” is exactly what I’m looking for. I want to eliminate any use of any type of spacer or non spring + (strut/shock) lift.

Can you explain to me why ‘no’ to the 5100s?
I appreciate the help but I can’t just take ‘no’ for an answer. I’m a logics type of guy.
 

tommudd

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LOL you've never been told NO ?
How many KJs have you installed lifts on?
The Monroe's do gain some but that IS NOT what they are designed to do , they are for carrying extra weight
I know since I am the first one to run the Monroe's, everyone said they would not work. But I got them, installed them and off roaded with them with no issues , then everyone else started using them
As far as the fronts, again they are for use with stock springs not aftermarket suspension systems. We have been using clevis lifts for over 15 years will no ill affects, almost everyone of the over 60 OME lifts I have done had the clevis done
as far as the rear that is not using a spacer just another upper iso, works great
If you want to go by some others go ahead , no skin off my back, I'm just telling you what almost everyone around has done and what has worked on the ones I was involved in.
If someone who did one KJ lift knows more than me and you agree with them then go for it
Good luck, I am done
 
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LOL you've never been told NO ?
How many KJs have you installed lifts on?
The Monroe's do gain some but that IS NOT what they are designed to do , they are for carrying extra weight
I know since I am the first one to run the Monroe's, everyone said they would not work. But I got them, installed them and off roaded with them with no issues , then everyone else started using them
As far as the fronts, again they are for use with stock springs not aftermarket suspension systems. We have been using clevis lifts for over 15 years will no ill affects, almost everyone of the over 60 OME lifts I have done had the clevis done
as far as the rear that is not using a spacer just another upper iso, works great
If you want to go by some others go ahead , no skin off my back, I'm just telling you what almost everyone around has done and what has worked on the ones I was involved in.
If someone who did one KJ lift knows more than me and you agree with them then go for it
Good luck, I am done
Of course I’ve been told ‘no’ , but as an adult speak to another adult, I tend to dismiss people who just say no without explanation.

and yeah the 5100s were designed with Stock springs in mind, but they can be used with non stock springs. Many people are running 5100s with OME springs on MANY platforms. And how is that any different from you running Monroes made for the Dakota in a KJ. Not what they were designed for but it works right .

no I’ve never lifted any Cars let alone a KJ hence the ridiculous amount of questions.

Yeah clevis lifts have worked superbly from what I gathered, but it’s still a point of failure I’d like to eliminate as well as the extra isolator. I’m aware chances of it failing are basically zero, but **** happens.

again, thanks for the input, but I’m aggregating information together. And I doubt they know more than you, but none of the information I’ve provided contradicts yours. But you’re touting your preference (and experience) as the only way to go about it. Like the Monroe thing, you said it doesn’t give any lift, but later you admit that some is gained despite it not being their primary purpose.

thanks tho, you’ve basically equipped me with the knowledge I need to tackle this thing and make an informed decision.
 

tommudd

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How can a clevis lift be a point of failure, evidently you have not seen a clevis lift or know what it involves. There is nothing that can break, come loose, bent, fall apart , nothing
as far as the Monroes go, I used them on mine and no gain in height
I was already at a height that they just provided extra spring to provide a better ride over all with all weight I had
Again not shock by itself provides lift, only springs do , when you use a shock to make more lift it makes the shock work harder, makes the mounts provide more overall stress etc
Many people jump off of bridges every year , but are you following them ? Of course not or hope you do not
What you are trying to do, lift a CRD KJ , is challenging enough due to overall extra weight, the diff being to drivers side more and shorter CVs there which makes lifting over 3 inches not worth it in my book due to extra wear and tear .
But you keep bringing in things to lift it more.
You're reading Fakebook warriors and things they have done or following others who went higher but do not mention the extra work and extras they changed to lift higher .
What I suggest is NOT , I repeat NOT just my views but many others as well from the last 15-16 years
The best setups we came up with was OME 790s , OME shocks and either a clevis lift or top mounted plate ( 1/4 inch thick which is no longer available ) and leave it right there. No other spring or shock held up on the front .
There is a different mindset that lifting a CRD compared to a gasser comes into play
If I was you I would look into a Grand Cherokee
CRD KJ engines require a bit of knowledge that most do not have nor do most Jeep dealerships
 

lfhoward

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Thought he pretty much gave up on Libertys
There isn't as much there for the Liberty as there used to be. The KK winch bumper, 1/4 top plates, and cowl ditch light brackets are still available as of now. I'm glad I got my roof rack from ATH before it was discontinued.
 
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How can a clevis lift be a point of failure, evidently you have not seen a clevis lift or know what it involves. There is nothing that can break, come loose, bent, fall apart , nothing
as far as the Monroes go, I used them on mine and no gain in height
I was already at a height that they just provided extra spring to provide a better ride over all with all weight I had
Again not shock by itself provides lift, only springs do , when you use a shock to make more lift it makes the shock work harder, makes the mounts provide more overall stress etc
Many people jump off of bridges every year , but are you following them ? Of course not or hope you do not
What you are trying to do, lift a CRD KJ , is challenging enough due to overall extra weight, the diff being to drivers side more and shorter CVs there which makes lifting over 3 inches not worth it in my book due to extra wear and tear .
But you keep bringing in things to lift it more.
You're reading Fakebook warriors and things they have done or following others who went higher but do not mention the extra work and extras they changed to lift higher .
What I suggest is NOT , I repeat NOT just my views but many others as well from the last 15-16 years
The best setups we came up with was OME 790s , OME shocks and either a clevis lift or top mounted plate ( 1/4 inch thick which is no longer available ) and leave it right there. No other spring or shock held up on the front .
There is a different mindset that lifting a CRD compared to a gasser comes into play
If I was you I would look into a Grand Cherokee
CRD KJ engines require a bit of knowledge that most do not have nor do most Jeep dealerships

I concede on the Clevis. I hear you about the added stress, I’ll take my chances with it. If it doesn’t do what I want I can always go back and add the isolators; I don’t use Facebook unless you’re using ‘fakebook’ as a catch all term to refer to sources that arent approved by you and the greater community as a whole, then ‍*shrug*.

you’re right that not everybody lists the mods they’ve done to allow the lifts they have but for you to assume I’m just taking them at their word and not cross referencing said information is insulting, but go off.
I’m not looking for the best approved setups for the kJ I’m looking for something that will give me what I want with 0 to minimal extra modification.

only other question I need to be answered tbh is if that extra 1/4” inch to make it a 3.5” lift will drastically ______ up anything in the crd. If you don’t know that’s fine, I understand you want me to stick with the Clevis lift and such, but if you have pertinent information in regards to my question it would be appreciated.

Cherokee CRDs have their own hardships, hence why I’m still trying to decide which devil to tango with as much info as I can acquire
 
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tommudd

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I have given you the information at least 3-4 times
THE DIFF SITS OVER TO THE LEFT SIDE MORE THAN IT DOES ON A GASSER, THUS THE LEFT SIDE CV IS SHORTER
so that CV will be at a steeper angle than what it would be on a gasser with same lift
but do what you want
plus I removed a cuss word from your post, this is a family rated site please keep it that way
 
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