KJ's not worthy of Jeep label....

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Hammer

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Hold on!......

So, has anyone here read the "TrailHead" editorial in the latest issue of JP mag? I was under the impression that the KJ had been pretty much accepted by those "in the know" within the Jeep community?! I mean I've read the articles by Rockcrawler.com stating the Liberty is a great and trail worthy vehicle just like the rest of the Jeep line.

Well if your on your way out to buy the April 2005 issue, you're gonna be pissed after you read it. About the least evil comment stated was, and I quote, "... In my mind, none of them will ever be Jeep's no matter how many "Trail Rated" or "Jeep" logo's are plastered all over them".

Now I as both a Rubicon and Liberty owner was taken back by this editorial, so I'm seriously going to suspend my subscription.... And yeah, I'm also going to tell this schmuck where he can stick his rag.

- Hammer.
 

-=JoN=-

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isnt like jp mag too old school
i've read some threads (in JU) about jp mag, and their unacceptance of the liberty and even the rubi.
 

4Factor

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Hammer said:
Now I as both a Rubicon and Liberty owner was taken back by this editorial, so I'm seriously going to suspend my subscription.... And yeah, I'm also going to tell this schmuck where he can stick his rag.

- Hammer.

You gotta admit that a magazine wouldn't be worth reading if they didn't pick out flaws in the subject matter that they cover. We all understand that we have to take critisism both good and bad. I'm certain that picking out flaws and fixing them is what the aftermarket is all about.

That being said, it is also not very useful to alienate your readers with downright horrible editorials. Blasting a vehicle and making it seem like a horrible waste of money does nothing but get the back up of the people who like/own that vehicle. Articles like that usually provide no useful data, and are more of a waste of resources than the vehicle they are writing about, they are also usually totally one-sided (usually lopsided in the non-truth dept.).
I guess the best response one can hope for is to challenge the author to find a vehicle that is "ALL THAT" and still the same price range. Sure there might be better vehicles out there but the author better be able to back up his choice. Doing so in a non-childish fashion might impress me, acting foolish and answering "it's better just because" will just make me discount the response and give me an impresion of low-mentality.

Besides rants about how horrible a vehicle is, are usually best left for the internet. I suppose in this case the author would have been better off sticking to Jeepsunlimited.com or other forums that allow unmoderated bashing.
 

Renegade04

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Cancelled subscription today.... They even had the B@11s to ask why....
 

yoda13

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typical of old school jeepers. Oh well, I really don't care all that much. All I have to say about that guy is..... (*******)
 

Trodo

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I feel it's more than worthy. After that first big storm here in California, I was staying up in Big Bear, wham, all this snow. I wasn't packing anything for that kind of weather and having my 9 month old son and wife along, got in my Liberty and came down the mountain. (On the stock tires) Passing several vehicles, even a Hummer H2.

(btw, if Wrangler had come with 4 doors, I probably would have done that, but I feel it's a perfect choice from the rough and tumble Wrangler and the now 45k Grand Cherokee.)
 

grogiefrog

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Trodo said:
I feel it's more than worthy. After that first big storm here in California, I was staying up in Big Bear, wham, all this snow. I wasn't packing anything for that kind of weather and having my 9 month old son and wife along, got in my Liberty and came down the mountain. (On the stock tires) Passing several vehicles, even a Hummer H2.

(btw, if Wrangler had come with 4 doors, I probably would have done that, but I feel it's a perfect choice from the rough and tumble Wrangler and the now 45k Grand Cherokee.)

yes.gif The KJ is indeed a great 4x4.
 

bigfella

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Keep in ming that when the Wrangler came out with square headlights they said that...then when the cherokee came out they said that...then when the grand cherokee came out they said that...it's progression. Once it's been out for over five years and they are all over the place, inexpensive, and proven to be reliable as the older jeeps they will gain acceptance.

For now if they want to argue about it remind them that off-road guys cannot support a brand name in sales and there would be no more Jeep if they were left to run the shop...you need the sales to keep the brand alive and Jeep wanted to refresh the Cherokee to keep an "entry" level jeep around since the Wrangler is no longer consider that nor can it do much for a family! If they want to argue that tell them to go talk to Olds guys, or any other brand that is no longer here because the big-3 did not want the brand with lower sales...
 

kj lad

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UK 4x4 mags love the KJ. It even won the 2005 4x4 of the year in the UK's biggest offroader mag. \:D/

It's the IFS they keep ragging. The're going to have no Jeeps left to like because the GC also has IFS. [-(

Now the best new offroaders that are also great day to day SUV's (IMHO) are:

Range Rover
Discovery 3
Jeep Cherokee (Libbies to you guys)
Jeep GC

and ohoh......... they all have IFS.

JP, GET OUT OF THE PAST AND LOOK AT THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!!

Ian
 

Hammer

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The "TrailHead" editorial doesn't seem to be on the JP website? SO I took the liberty (no pun intended) to quote the printed editorial.

If you are reading this, have ever picked up a 4x4 magazine, or have modified your Jeep even the slightest bit, you are what the people at DC call the lunatic fringe market. A few years ago you didn't matter to them. They figured there weren't very many of us. Rewind to OCT of 2000 when I found myself at the DC Chelsa Proving Grounds attending a long lead for the introduction of the then brand new '02 Jeep KJ Liberty. Little did I know that this was the beginning of a change that would convert the Jeep that I knew into the Daimler.

Public relations people and engineer's introduced the Liberty as a vehicle that would attract new buyers to the Jeep brand. They knew it wasn't meant to be as much of an off-road vehicle as the current Wrangler, Cherokee or Grand Cherokee of the time, and they made that pretty clear. The Liberty was however designed to be the most capable off-road vehicle in that catagory, which to me wasn't saying all that much. Several other vehicles were available for comparison at the introduction. Jeep people considered these cute utes to be the competition. There was a Toyota RAV-4, a Ford Escape, a Nissan Xterra and a few others all of which I considered pretty **** when it came to off-raod capability. Somewhere between taking my first look at the Jeep Liberty and breathing my next breath, I realized the KJ wasn't a JP Magazine Jeep, at least not for the core reader. Jeep reps reassured me that the Cherokee would still be produced and that the KJ wasn't a replacement for it because the two Jeeps attracted very different buyers.

A few months later I received a phone call from a Jeep public relations rep telling me the company was discontinuing the Cherokee. Shortly after that I was bombarded with commercials and ads for the Liberty that bragged about it's off-raod prowess. I felt sick. I felt even sicker when the public bought the Liberty and the hype. And I actually had to vomit when I started receiving letters from Liberty owners telling me how much better their Jeep worked off-road than a cherokee or a Wrangler.

As far as concept vehicles were concerned, the following few years could be referred to as dark times for Jeep in my mind. I remember traveling to aftermarket shows and Camp Jeep, looking over a hideous Fender-guitar Wrangler complete with real guitar bumpers and guitar-strap seatbelts. There was also a tacky lime-green surf Wrangler and a Tabasco-sauce Jeep along with plenty of other visually unattractive monstrosities that had nothing to do with and certainly didn't improve the Jeep brand or heritage. Needless to say, none of these Jeeps had any added componets that would make them perform any better off-road. Whoever was in charge of these programs at the time should have been fired if for no other reason then to save that individual from embarassment.

Fast forward a few years to March 2002 in Moab, UT., where for the first time I was able to get behind the wheel of the most capable production 4x4 ever produced, the Wrangler Rubicon. I met some of the engineers who helped design and build it. These guys were just like you and me and apparently had a heck of a time convincing The Daimler that an off-road capable Jeep would sell. Intially only 8,000 Wrangler Rubicon's were going to be produced for the '03 model year. This number was increased several times before the new Jeeps even hit the dealer lots as deposits and sales surpassed what The Daimler had anticipated. The company couldn't make enough of them.

Today looks a lot brighter to me than that crisp fall morning in the middle of the Chelsa test track just over four years ago. I can accept that DC is OK with diluting it's Jeep brand with cars and car-like SUV's. I don't have to like 'em, and in my mind, some of them will never be Jeeps no matter how many "Trail Rated" or "Jeep" logos are plastered on them. I like to think of it as a fork in the road - one path heading down a rough, fun-looking 4x4 path into the hills, the other as smooth paved road heading toward the city. I don't know about you, but JP Magazine is going four wheeling and there are some Jeeps that just won't make it.

- John Cappa.

There you have it. Taken from the April '05 issue.

- Hammer
 

Flaren

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And I actually had to vomit when I started receiving letters from Liberty owners telling me how much better their Jeep worked off-road than a cherokee or a Wrangler.

This right here proves he's missing the point entirely. It's not always about who can drive up 90-degree wall or who can drive over a rock the size of Mt. Everest. Some of us just plain want more utility than a rig like a "real" (in their opinion) Jeep would be able to offer. What he's missing is the fact that people are ENJOYING THE EXPERIENCE MORE. He should be happy about the fact that more people are wheeling, period! More people are outside, more people are enjoying their surroundings and for once, maybe stopping to smell the flowers, so to speak, and hell, more people are getting off the couch! Maybe I don't understand everything quite yet, but I'd rather be having one hell of a time with good friends and (in the eyes of some) an "inferior" rig than run the rat-race of a mod-competition I see plastered everywhere. At the end of the day, I can put you, all your ridiculous gear, your broken rig parts cuz you had to be a big shot idiot and prove something, and tow your sad busted up rig behind me. Why? Cuz I'm not a closed-minded jerk and I got, to me, an awesome vehicle that actually fits ALL my needs, not just an all-consuming desire to play "King of the Mountain". (No offense to those guys here, but I detect a large epidemic of SPR on their part surrounding this whole issue. For those of you stumped, SPR = Small Penis Rage.)

I forget who said it once, but the quote was:

" A great many "open minds" should be closed for business."

</RANT> Hehe....sorry. *Gets down off the soapbox*

(*Edits for punctuation....I drive myself nuts with my inability to type at times...lol.)
 

Flaren

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Wow, gotta apologize for this rant, guys. I think it was inspired by reading one too many JU posts....lol. Sorry again.
 

Flaren

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Yeah, so I'm finding! Thinking back on my previous post, I'd also like to state for the record that I have nothing against mods on a vehicle. Bennett and SilverLib's KJs, among others, are incredibly awesome! =D> (Something for my little stocker to aspire to when she gets here!) Guess I just had to get all the JU and KJ-rage out of my system. I was reading some of the other stuff (nothing to do with any Jeep at all), too, and good god are those people screwed up in the head! LOL.
 
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