Key or WCM or PCM???

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Duster

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So this is VERY ANNOYING. I think one of the 3 is bad, or maybe there is a wiring problem I haven't found, but I doubt it.

Is there any way to confirm which is bad so that I know to just buy one, or buy all 3? Or go to dealer or find a car locksmith? Unfortunately I have only ever had one key because I had no idea what all was involved in getting a spare.

Here is what happened if it helps any. I am going to start from now and go backwards in time.

Right now, when I turn the switch it won't crank over. The red sentry light stays lit. After trying to crank and nothing, leaving the key in the on position the other lights go out and the Check Engine Light stays on, After a bit the CEL will blink off and flash 5 times staying lit the 5th time. After a while longer the red sentry light will blink off once and light right back up. The keyless entry still works right now though. No problem. Oh and once in a while here lately the key doesn't want to turn forward. I will have to turn it back to ACC and then it's fine. I start/stop many times a day every day so I hadn't paid a lot of attention to this considering 218k miles. I have no idea how the key switch and starter haven't just fell out by now, lol.

Yesterday, I went out to go to work, it cranked up fine and immediately died 2 seconds later. I tried 3 times. Then went and got keys for the other car and left. Thought about it and thought well maybe it is the battery. I have heard of this issue being the battery. I checked it and it was just a little over 12v. I pulled it out and took it in the garage, checked electrolyte levels and charged it overnight. This morning it read 12.99v so I put it back in the Jeep and by then it was 12.4 volts. Went to crank it and that is when it started the not cranking over like above. I still had not noticed the little red light (which I thought was fuel pump prime light until now). So I threw jumper cables on it before I assumed dead cell I went for a new battery. Nothing and after a bit I noticed the light.

Prior to this new years eve the key fob would not unlock the doors or pop the rear glass. I changed the battery and it worked.

Prior to this a month ago the key fob would not work. I stopped for battery. It still would not work so I checked all the connections and put the old battery back. It started working again later on. Seemed intermittent. I use it a lot while working so it came and went a couple of times and I thought one time I could get it to start and stop working by messing with turning the steering wheel some. But that may just be a fluke.

Sometime several months ago I noticed the flashers stopped flashing when using keyless entry. Just the interior lights come on. I actually never thought about this again until now because I have always found that obnoxious. I assumed some secondary hazard flasher somewhere had just went out and was kinda happy about it. I remember thinking now if I only knew what to unplug so the horn didn't toot when locking.

This is a nightmare for me. I can't work. I understand that I could get a PCM, but without getting one with a SKIM delete it will be screwed up if I put it in and it turns out the wireless control module is bad. If the WCM is bad I assume both have to be replaced and then I'd have to get keys too?

I am not against the SKIM delete. But I do NEED the remote entry part, so...

Does any of the above help narrow it any? The dealer of course was no help. I'd have to have it towed in and pay the diagnosis fee and they would get back to me on what all needs replacing, parts and labor etc...
 
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Duster

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I messed around a little bit more just trying to see "what would happen if I"....

So what I did was, unplugged the wireless control module receiver in the steering column so I could see if it made a change in the little red sentry light or the check engine flash. It did change. It took longer for the red light to come on by quite a few seconds, but no other change.

This makes me think maybe the PCM is not the problem?

As I thought about this I was trying to think if there was any way I could tell if my only key was the issue or the receiver in the steering column. Then I thought I had a bright idea, remembering once I tried to pop the back glass with the button while the key was in the switch and was bummed to find it didn't work that way. So I tried that, and the remote pops the back glass with the key in the ignition.

Interesting... So does this help any with probability?

I was at first thinking it is probably the PCM since the key works for 2 of 3 functions... and the receiver is receiving the keyless entry so its working for 1 of 2 functions. But now I am not so sure.

Is the transponder chip for the key sentry on the push button board? If it opens the back glass with the key in the switch, I can't decide rather the transponder is not sending a signal or the receiver in the steering column is no good and not picking up the signal?
 

turblediesel

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Actuator pins in the ignition switch break causing dash lights to come on but not start. Mine hasn't gone bad so I don't know if they act intermittantly.

The key fob can be programmed to blink lights and honk through different button pushing sequences on the key fob. The owners manual has a rundown on that. I think you might have chanced upon a sequence and cancelled the parking light blink. Cool that the fob can open the back glass while in the ignition. Mine never has even though it seemed like it should have.

A dying battery in mine opened the back glass when I cranked to start, which it didn't do.

The start and run for a few seconds points to the skim/skree antitheft wizardry that involves communication between the key and the lighted ring module around the ignition switch. I was told a long time ago that too many failed attempts in a certain amount of time will disable the computer because it thinks it's being stolen.

The cable interlock between the shifter and ignition switch can cause problems so try starting it in neutral.

At the end of all the voodoo bells and whistles is a normal electrical ignition switch which can break like any mechanical/electrical switch. I've only heard of one going bad so I would suspect it last.

Try disconnecting both battery cables and taping them together for about an hour. That's supposed to reset the computer.

You need two good keys to program a third. Dealer here got an evil grin as he described how much junk needed to be replaced if you only have one key and want another. I think the buy list included two keys, the skim/skree module, door lock, reprogramming, and labor. I'd try the nerdiest locksmith I could find first.

I hope any of that helps. I'm no expert and I'm mostly regurgitating what I've read here and on other forums.

Good luck!
 

Duster

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Yeah when it is light out I am going to go ahead touch the battery cables together for a bit. Then I found a sequence where you hook it back up, lock the doors with the key fob for a bit, then unlock and try to crank. If that doesn't work I am going to go ahead and pull the ignition switch apart and check for broken stuff, and while the ignition is loose I'm going to put the tumbler back in, insert the key and turn the electric ignition box over with a screwdriver to see if it will start. I have seen the tip of the guts break off once and cause this. But I don't recall any light.

I do think the only reasons I have had a change from start and run 2 seconds to no turn over at all is I probably did it more than the allowed number of times like you are saying. I did it twice to start with and when it died after 2 tries I was like OK not a fluke gonna drive something else. Then when I got back to it I tried at least twice more before I pulled the battery and put it on the charger.

I already tried the neutral start thinking that might be it before I noticed the little red light was staying on.

Mine was like yours when it was running. If the key was in the switch the buttons for the locks and rear glass were disabled even of the engine was off. But now it is not, indicating to me the either the transponder chip in the key is not signaling despite the keyless entry buttons working, or the receiver ring around the switch is not picking up the transponder despite the fact it is picking up the keyless entry at the moment.

I will call around and see if I can find a car locksmith guy that can come out with some gadgets that will be able to determine if the voodoo crap is putting out sentry signal. Somebody like that might be able to figure out if the transponder in the key is not working or if it is and the receiver in the steering column is not picking it up. Heck it might even work the other way around. I'm pretty sure my mazda works the other way because the chip key is separate from the keyless entry thing.

I was kind of OK with the idea of the dealer at first. But that was before I got on Mopar and saw what they list all the parts for. It looks like between diagnosis, PARTS, labor and programming, you might end up facing a shell shock bill. Looks like it could get over 2k really fast. I'd call junkyards until I found a full set of everything off one KJ the same year before I'd do that and change everything out.
 

Billwill

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What year/model do you have.

The battery in the key fob is purely there to lock/unlock the doors...has nothing to do with the SKREEM anti theft system.....if this is a KJ!

Let me know the year/model and:

Does the engine turn over but not fire.
Does the Red Led...assuming it is a KJ...light up solid or flash when you try turn over the engine.

Does the engine fire up for a few seconds then die.

Remove the Starter Relay and jumper female pins 87 and 30 together briefly while ignition is ON and you are in Park/Neutral....should turn over if fuse#8 40 A is OK.

Just for fun swap over the ASD relay with a similar one nearby and likewise swap over the Starter Relay.;)
 
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Duster

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What year/model do you have.

The battery in the key fob is purely there to lock/unlock the doors...has nothing to do with the SKREEM anti theft system.....if this is a KJ!

Let me know the year/model and:

Does the engine turn over but not fire.
Does the Red Led...assuming it is a KJ...light up solid or flash when you try turn over the engine.

Does the engine fire up for a few seconds then die.

Remove the Starter Relay and jumper female pins 87 and 30 together briefly while ignition is ON and you are in Park/Neutral....should turn over if fuse#8 40 A is OK.

Just for fun swap over the ASD relay with a similar one nearby and likewise swap over the Starter Relay.;)

2007 KJ

To start with it turned over and ran for 2 seconds and then died. I think I tried too many times and now it does nothing at all. The radio and stuff comes on but the immobilizer is not allowing the starter to engage.

The red led is a dot on mine and it stays on solid. My manual states that solid on condition indicates a problem with the SKIM system.

I am sure it would bump right over on the starter, but not run, if I jumpered the starter relay pins. I think it has been immobilized.

Already swapped around relays starting with the ASD. I think that was the first thing I did was swap the starter relay before noticing the red light, and I think the next thing I did was swap the ASD. I think I did that before I checked fuses.
 

Duster

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Actuator pins in the ignition switch break causing dash lights to come on but not start. Mine hasn't gone bad so I don't know if they act intermittantly.

The key fob can be programmed to blink lights and honk through different button pushing sequences on the key fob. The owners manual has a rundown on that. I think you might have chanced upon a sequence and cancelled the parking light blink. Cool that the fob can open the back glass while in the ignition. Mine never has even though it seemed like it should have.

Thanks for the help. I checked the actuator pin mechanism. I wanted to do that anyways because the switch had been wierd a couple of times about not wanting to turn to on. I would then turn back to ACC and it would then turn fine. I also wanted to make sure the inside of the electronic ignition piece and the actuator end were not marred up to where it just wouldn't turn far enough to engage the starter.

Everything looks good in there. I think it was just a piece of grit in the tumblers or wear on them or the key that caused the wierd feel a couple of times. Everything looks and feels great.

Also, much thanks for the pointer on sequences for the key fob. Turned that dang horn beep when locking right off and also set to unlock everything with one push of the button. Very happy with that. I can assure you that will be the story if I fix it or the grumpy gripe if I don't and don't ever get to use it now that its changed lol.
 

Billwill

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This does look like a SKEES problem as regards the red LED.

The SKEES system consists of the SKIM module on top of the steering column which has a a wire loop surrounding the key entry slot. The wire loop reads the code off of the key much as security systems in Supermarkets read off security tags placed on small items to stop theft.

The SKIM module sends the code to the PCM and if the code matches what is stored in the PCM then the ASD Relay is activated..plus some other secret things...it is not possible to start the Jeep by forcing the ASD Relay to be ON!;)

Normally the engine should still turn over but not fire though....unless there is a wiring problem somewhere.

When you took the ignition actuator assembly apart you should have been able to rotate the Ignition Switch with a small screwdriver which should have energized the Starter Relay...provided that fuse #8 40 A is OK and the Park/Neutral Interlocks are OK and the key is in the ignition slot.

Check that the wire "loop" around the key entrance is in place....this comes off the SKIM module.

Use the Wiring Diagrams in Section 8W of the 2006 Jeep KJ Service manuals to see why the Starter relay is not energizing...the Park/Neutral interlocks provide ground to the one side of the Starter Relay coil. I believe that a solenoid inside the Auto Gearbox can also stop the Starter Relay coil from energizing....I am not an Expert on auto transmissions.:confused:

The SKIM module on top of the steering column is programed in the factory to match the key code. This can only be done once....a new Virgin SKIM module can be programmed to match the key code by the Dealers and this code can be programmed in the PCM.

You could source a SKIM module, PCM and set of keys from the same vehicle at the a Breaker yard otherwise you need to go to the Dealers!:(

I had a problem on my 2002 Export CRD whereby the Key symbol (Red Light on newer models) came on solid because there was break in the wiring from the ASD Relay back to the ECM confirming to the ECM that the ASD Relay had in fact energized.:confused:
 
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turblediesel

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I'm happy to barf up everything I know to help in the hope that there are useful tidbits of information but Billwill serves up an aromatic sumptuous seven course meal of knowledge and experience.

Billwill is awesome.
 

Duster

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This does look like a SKEES problem as regards the red LED.

The SKEES system consists of the SKIM module on top of the steering column which has a a wire loop surrounding the key entry slot. The wire loop reads the code off of the key much as security systems in Supermarkets read off security tags placed on small items to stop theft.

The SKIM module sends the code to the PCM and if the code matches what is stored in the PCM then the ASD Relay is activated..plus some other secret things...it is not possible to start the Jeep by forcing the ASD Relay to be ON!;)

Normally the engine should still turn over but not fire though....unless there is a wiring problem somewhere.

When you took the ignition actuator assembly apart you should have been able to rotate the Ignition Switch with a small screwdriver which should have energized the Starter Relay...provided that fuse #8 40 A is OK and the Park/Neutral Interlocks are OK and the key is in the ignition slot.

Check that the wire "loop" around the key entrance is in place....this comes off the SKIM module.

Use the Wiring Diagrams in Section 8W of the 2006 Jeep KJ Service manuals to see why the Starter relay is not energizing...the Park/Neutral interlocks provide ground to the one side of the Starter Relay coil. I believe that a solenoid inside the Auto Gearbox can also stop the Starter Relay coil from energizing....I am not an Expert on auto transmissions.:confused:

The SKIM module on top of the steering column is programed in the factory to match the key code. This can only be done once....a new Virgin SKIM module can be programmed to match the key code by the Dealers and this code can be programmed in the PCM.

You could source a SKIM module, PCM and set of keys from the same vehicle at the a Breaker yard otherwise you need to go to the Dealers!:(

I had a problem on my 2002 Export CRD whereby the Key symbol (Red Light on newer models) came on solid because there was break in the wiring from the ASD Relay back to the ECM confirming to the ECM that the ASD Relay had in fact energized.:confused:

OK so tell me if I am stupid here cause I don't have a wiring schematic to follow. The Wireless Control Module and SKIM module are the same piece in the steering column with the ring around the keyswitch tumbler? So the chip for the key system and also the keyless entry are read by the same unit? 2n1? Or is there another keyless entry receiver somewhere in the jeep?

I ask because when the SKIM in the steering column is unplugged my keyless entry stops working. I ask because I have a request in with a programmer that does SKIM deletes, but they say to unhook the skim before installing the PCM with delete. I am fine with the skim delete. Nobody is going to steal it. But I am not fine with loosing my keyless entry.

I put a request in to see about this but was wondering if there is maybe another receiver I don't know about that is getting shut down by the OEM PCM because the SKIM is unplugged. I am thinking no, the same module in the column handles both functions and just the SKIM part has quit working or my key has quit working... and if I go with the delete I have no keyless entry.
 

Billwill

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Hi Duster...I see that you have been reading Sir Sams post on Lost!
Some good information there but a bit old and no final resolution!;)

So it would seem from Sir Sams post that there is an EEPROM soldered on the SKREEM module. So if you suspect that something else on the SKREEM module has failed you should be able to unsolder the EEPROM and program a new one if you have the correct programmer.
This explains why the Dealers insist that a brand new SKREEM module has to be programmed and fitted by the Dealers themselves.:confused:

Maybe you should try Post questions directly to Sir Sam on Lost..I see that you have already downloaded most of the code on that EEPROM....many years since I last played with those devices!o_O


In your case I believe you should first try and resolve why the engine does not turn over...this should happen no matter what the status of the SKREEM but I may be wrong...I have never worked on the newer models!

Early KJs had an RKE (Remote Key Entry)module plugged onto the outside of the BCM while later KJs have it built into the BCM.
Unplugging the SKREEM may kill the PCM altogether for security reasons so the door locking may be disabled.
However this may be only true on earlier models where they refer to a SKIM module...newer manuals refer to a SKREEM module with the WCM o_O

I do not have the 2007 KJ Service Manuals but the 2006 Manuals are available below:
The only difference should be that the wiring colors may be different and the 2007 has a different throttle assembly.

So remove the ignition switch and rotate it with a small screwdriver while the chipped key is in its entry slot and in Park/Neutral. If the engine does not turn over refer to the wiring diagrams as to if the Starter Relay is energizing and why it is not activating the starter motor....section 8w-21-2 has the Starter Relay logic.

Then refer to the section in the 2006 KJ Service manual that explains what a solid Red LED means and what a flashing LED means, what the WCM is etc. and lets take it from there.;)

I had a second wiring problem on my old KJ whereby the LED was ON solid...engine would crank but not fire.
There was a broken wire going to the ASD relay coil stopping it from energizing.
I could remove the ASD Relay, jumper pins 30 and 87 inside the empty socket together firmly and start and run the Jeep like that until I had time to find the broken wire.

www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/
 
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Billwill

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OK Section 8Q in the 2006 Jeep KJ Service Manuals gives a reasonable explanation of how the system works....hopefully the 2007 model is the same:)

It may be possible that on these latest models that a SKREEM error will stop the Starter Relay from activating!o_O

I cannot at this stage contribute any further I believe....Duster has the tools and knowledge to see what is inside the SKREEM EEPROM and should be able to re-program the EEPROM with the correct code or cancel the coded key system altogether....assuming the problem is in that area and not something else such as a wiring issue!:confused:

I will follow this journey and contribute if I can!:)

Have fun!!:rolleyes:
 
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Duster

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Yeah I am on all the jeep forums. 3 or so I think. I am the computer nerd that don't fit in with other computer nerds. I like jeeps, atv's, motorcycles, offroading instead of things computer nerds like. I don't like to wrench on any of them but I can and do when it is needed. I can also wrench on computers physically and graphically. But I just don't fit in with others that do this and I don't have interest in working for Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, etc for personal reasons. So I do contract work out of my Jeep.

Anyways, you give me a bit too much credit on the lost forum stuff. I didn't pull the bin file from the computer on that CRD. I don't have those types of tools. I just did the nerd part of opening and reading the encrypted file, and probably didn't do a very good job of it because I didn't put a lot of effort in it. I saw what I knew was the VIN broken up, and I saw a 4 character listing I believed to be the PIN for a couple of reasons. But there might have been something I was overlooking.

Anyways, thanks so much for the manual. Page 8Q-79 spells out what I need to know and has a pic of the module in the steering column.

The Sentry Key REmote Entry Module (SKREEM) (1)
is sometimes referred to as the Wireless Control Mod-
ule (WCM). The SKREEM is the primary component of

the Sentry Key Immobilizer System (SKIS) and is also
the receiver for the Remote Keyless Entry (RKE) sys-

tem and the Tire Pressure Monitor (TPM) system. The
SKREEM is located on the right side of the steering
column, near the ignition lock cylinder housing and is
concealed billeneath the steering column shrouds. The
molded black plastic housing for the SKREEM has an
integral molded plastic halo-like antenna ring (4) that
extends from one end. When the SKREEM is properly
installed on the steering column, the antenna ring is
oriented around the circumference of the ignition lock
cylinder housing.

A single integral connector receptacle (3) is located on the opposite end of the SKREEM housing from the antenna
ring. A stamped metal mounting bracket (2) secured to the SKREEM housing is used to secure the component to
the right lower flange of the steering column jacket. The SKREEM is connected to the vehicle electrical system
through a single take out and connector of the instrument panel wire harness.
Several SKREEM modules are used, specific to optional vehicle equipment and the market in which the vehicle is
sold. The SKREEM cannot be adjusted or repaired. If inoperative or damaged, the entire SKREEM unit must be
replaced.

The Sentry Key REmote Entry Module (SKREEM) contains a Radio Frequency (RF) transceiver and a micropro-
cessor. The SKIM transmits RF signals to, and receives RF signals from the Sentry Key transponder through a
tuned antenna enclosed within the molded plastic antenna ring integral to the SKREEM housing. If this antenna ring
is not mounted properly around the ignition lock cylinder housing, communication problems between the SKREEM
and the transponder may arise. These communication problems will result in Sentry Key transponder-related faults.
The SKREEM also serves as the Remote Keyless Entry (RKE) and the Tire Pressure Monitor (TPM) RF receiver.
(Refer to 8 - ELECTRICAL/POWER LOCKS - DESCRIPTION) or (Refer to 22 - TIRES/WHEELS/TIRE PRESSURE
MONITORING - DESCRIPTION). The SKREEM communicates over the Programmable Communications Interface
(PCI) data bus with the Body Control Module (BCM), the E


I will read further but I think that answers the one question. I assume the delete would kill my keyless entry since this part must remain unplugged after the delete.

SECURITY INDICATOR
LIGHTS SOLID FOLLOWING
BULB TEST
1. SKIS system malfunction/
fault detected.
1. Use a diagnostic scan tool and the
appropriate diagnostic information for further
diagnosis.
2. SKIS system inoperative. 2. Use a diagnostic scan tool and the
appropriate diagnostic information for further
diagnosis.

So it can be the PCM or the SKREEM/SKIM not sending to the key chip but working otherwise, or the transponder in the key not working but the button keyless entry working, or some other wiring fault. I think it does nothing now when I turn the key because I started it and let it run 2 seconds too many times and now it is 'IMMOBILIZED"


In all honesty I can see now that there are only 3 choices...

- Order a PCM with the delete and do without keyless entry too, which will really suck for me.
- Order a PCM with the delete, leave everything hooked up and pray the PCM was the issue.
- Have it towed in to be scanned and see what that reveals.

I believe the SKREEM or key is bad because I did have weird issues with the keyless entry coming and going prior to the shutdown. It is just very hard to convince yourself it is one of these two items because of the fact the keyless entry works at the moment. I feel like the PCM is OK because the dash light changes when I unplug the SKREEM module. But who knows...

Leaning toward having it towed in for a scan and then move forward accordingly. I'm going to contact a Dodge/Jeep specialty shop tomorrow rather than the dealer. This place was born out of a dealer closing so I hear they have the factory tools for the job.

If it is the keys I will have some keys made. If it is the SKREEM I will have it replaced and keys done. If it is the PCM I will have it towed back home.

 

Billwill

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Try get some new coded keys first!;)

Check the SKREEM module is firmly plugged in and re-plug the connectors on the PCM

Check if the ASD relay is energizing and use the wiring diagrams to see if the ASD relay is getting +12 volts and Ground over its coil and trace the output from the ASD Relay contacts to see if there is continuity to the PCM.

Jumper ASD Relay pins 30 and 87 firmly together and see if that does anything.:confused:

Or take it to the dreaded Dealers:eek: or the Jeep Speciality Shop.;)

If nothing happens when turning the key maybe the Actuator Pin Assembly has broken.
 

Duster

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I did not even have to have it towed. I took my key over to the dodge jeep specialty shop and they said it checked out. The owner went and called Dodge I assume to see about the parts. He came back in a bit and said I was looking at about $700 in parts and labor. I know this is way less than the dealer would stick me with. But I still have to think about that a little while. It's 14 years old and has over 217k on it. So I need a little air and time to get clear so I can think about it rationally instead of emotionally.

Understand that in doing it the Dodge/Jeep certified way, most of this expense is parts. The reason is that if it's the WCM, you also have to buy and program at least 2 new keys to the system or it will not cut of the immobilizer and start. So they sell this to dealers and shops as a kit, and I believe the keys and WCM are $189 each or something like that. So $567 + tax for parts. So in my case the shop is only getting about $100 for the work. That seems more than fair on their part.

Try get some new coded keys first!;)

Check the SKREEM module is firmly plugged in and re-plug the connectors on the PCM

Check if the ASD relay is energizing and use the wiring diagrams to see if the ASD relay is getting +12 volts and Ground over its coil and trace the output from the ASD Relay contacts to see if there is continuity to the PCM.

Jumper ASD Relay pins 30 and 87 firmly together and see if that does anything.:confused:

Or take it to the dreaded Dealers:eek: or the Jeep Speciality Shop.;)

If nothing happens when turning the key maybe the Actuator Pin Assembly has broken.

Actuator pin assembly is fine luckily.

I will do these things tomorrow when I fiddle around to take the PCM loose to see if I can find any identifying numbers on it. I have to do this again anyways so I can look into the SKIM delete.

I have been trying to make sense of the wiring to the module in the steering column. I am pretty sure my keyless entry is dead with that left unplugged so the computer doesn't sync up with the bad WCM. So I have been trying to figure out if there is a wire I can snip somewhere that will block communication between the computer and the SKIM while still allowing the keyless entry to work. I was kind of thinking maybe the WCM sent to the body control module to unlock the doors. So maybe there was a wire for each function running to the WCU at the column. If not maybe there was a wire I could clip going from the BCM to the computer. But I am struggling with these diagrams.

I'm also finding that there is a remote keyless entry module in the 2006 manual that I will have to look for on my 2007. I may have this all wrong. I'm just assuming it ain't gonna work the keyless being it doesn't work now once I unplug the WCM in the column. I gotta get back under the knee panel and look again.
 

Billwill

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The RKE unit is inside the BCM on the later KJs...my 2002 KJ has it plugged on the outside of the BCM.

If the RKE is integral to the BCM it may not be easy to identify it...assuming it is indeed there and has not been replaced by a WCM in the 2007KJ!o_O

A 2007 KJ Service Manual would be nice to have!

Do you have the red LED flashing at you or ON solid?

Any new Codes pulled out?

Do the doors lock/unlock with the key fob?
Is the battery in the key fob OK?
 
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Duster

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The RKE unit is inside the BCM on the later KJs...my 2002 KJ has it plugged on the outside of the BCM.

If the RKE is integral to the BCM it may not be easy to identify it...assuming it is indeed there and has not been replaced by a WCM in the 2007KJ!o_O

A 2007 KJ Service Manual would be nice to have!

Do you have the red LED flashing at you or ON solid?

Any new Codes pulled out?

Do the doors lock/unlock with the key fob?
Is the battery in the key fob OK?

Mine is a 2007. On the opposite side of the fuse panel, there are some relays I didn't know were there. Two plugs to the far right. And 3 connections that bolt on with plastic covering that have a large leg of wiring going to each. I can hear a bunch of clicking etc there upon locking and unlocking, etc. All in all, I don't think there is any issue with the BCM either which is good.

I "think" the WCM is the receiver for the keyless entry on the 2007 as well as the 2006. But yeah a 2007 manual would be nice to have. Might clear up a couple things.

The red led is on solid if everything is hooked up. If the SKREEM is unhooked it takes a little longer to initally come on.

No codes pulled out because I couldn't get it anywhere to be scanned. I don't even know if the parts store scanners can read anything about this???

Yeah the key fob has been working GREAT since the no-crank condition started.


I am going to go with SKIM delete on another computer, leave the SKREEM unhooked. Drive somewhere that it can be scanned. Put the original computer back in. Hook up the SKREEM and get it scanned... just to see if I can determine what the problem is. If it is the computer and not the SKREEM I can hook things back and have regular operation of everything including the keyless entry. I'm fairly sure the keyless entry is not going to work if I have to leave the SKREEM unhooked after the delete.
 

Duster

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OK, update...

Installed another computer programmed with my VIN and mileage, but with the SKIM deleted. Fired right up. After a few seconds the dash chimes and the red light for the SKIM comes on. But that is it. Keeps running fine. Good deal.

Bad news is, I was right. There is no unknown voodoo to the keyless entry system. They say the SKIM must remain unplugged for the SKIM delete to work, and the keyless entry does not work with the SKIM unplugged. Same remains true now that a new computer has been installed.

I have asked if I could get away with driving it out to the parts store, swapping my old computer back in and plugging up the SKIM so I can have it scanned to see what the codes are. It's just 5 screws and 5 plugs. My hope of course would be that I would find a code that might indicate what part actually went bad to cause my issue, and pray I could confirm my SKIM module in the steering column is good. If so I should be able to plug back up and get things working.

I am assuming the Auto store can pull these codes?

I have also asked if there is a wire I could clip to prevent the SKIM from communicating with the computer, while allowing the keyless part of the SKIM to communicate with the keyless entry module on the body control module. I have also been wondering if there was a way I could custom wire it myself.

It will be my luck he SKIM is bad, and every dang thing communicates on a single leg wire that is connected to everything.
 

Duster

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CRAAAAP!

The SKIM and Remote Keyless Entry "communicate" over the PCI Data Bus to the Body Control Module and I assume the CAN-C bus from the Body Control Module to the Power Control Module. (I think)

The connector has 5 wires. B+ Power, Key On Power, Ground, Tire Pressure Monitor (which I don't have), and PCI Data Bus.

So I assume the Remote Keyless Entry works over the PCI wire, and assume the SKIM part for the key does too?

Then somehow the SKIM stuff goes to the CAN-C bus to the PCM since the PCM is CAN-C.

Even if there was a diagram I could find to clip a wire to prevent the SKIM communication from the Body Control Module to the Power Control Module, I'm thinking that would clip all communication on the CAN-C bus from other things like sensors and stuff?

Am I making proper assumptions of what I am reading and what I am able to understand from the diagrams?

This wiring diagram in the service manual seems very complicated, and also seems to leave a lot out. And I am a person who has laid out and color coded an entire wiring diagram for something with EFI, lots of sensors and relays, etc... but did not have any serious bus in the system. Just a common power supply tree to all of the sensors. Trying to understand the flow on this Jeep is warping my tired brain.
 

Tim Reynolds

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CRAAA

The SKIM and Remote Keyless Entry "communicate" over the PCI Data Bus to the Body Control Module and I assume the CAN-C bus from the Body Control Module to the Power Control Module. (I think)

The connector has 5 wires. B+ Power, Key On Power, Ground, Tire Pressure Monitor (which I don't have), and PCI Data Bus.

So I assume the Remote Keyless Entry works over the PCI wire, and assume the SKIM part for the key does too?

Then somehow the SKIM stuff goes to the CAN-C bus to the PCM since the PCM is CAN-C.

Even if there was a diagram I could find to clip a wire to prevent the SKIM communication from the Body Control Module to the Power Control Module, I'm thinking that would clip all communication on the CAN-C bus from other things like sensors and stuff?

Am I making proper assumptions of what I am reading and what I am able to understand from the diagrams?

This wiring diagram in the service manual seems very complicated, and also seems to leave a lot out. And I am a person who has laid out and color coded an entire wiring diagram for something with EFI, lots of sensors and relays, etc... but did not have any serious bus in the system. Just a common power supply tree to all of the sensors. Trying to understand the flow on this Jeep is warping my tired brain.

Duster, any updates? I have the same problem.
 
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