crashed my 2007 KJ - should I get another KJ or KK?

Discussion in 'KJ General Discussion' started by jagyuma, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. jagyuma

    jagyuma New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Location:
    Yuma
    Hi folks,

    I just joined the forum and this is my first post.

    I had a 2007 Jeep Liberty that I loved. For 10 years, I drove it a lot on-road, off-road and towed it an equal amount. A couple of years ago, I put in a 2" lift and larger tires. I drove it off-road mostly in the Yuma, AZ area. It was great until I crashed it.

    Now I need a new Jeep. I have considered a wide range of possibilities:
    - Jeep Liberty KJ (2002-2007, as before)
    - Jeep Liberty KK (2008-2012)
    - Wrangler 2-door
    - Jeep Renegade Trailhawk

    I have eliminated the 4-door Wrangler, because it's too big for where I want to go. The 2-door Wrangler would be great, but only for 2 people and I want to take 2 others on outings with me. Crawling into the back seats is just not going to work.

    So that leaves me with another KJ, a KK or the Renegade.

    There is one place in Yuma that I like to go - "The Squeeze" in No-Name Wash. I can't post a link yet, but go to YouTube, find the video for "No Name Caynon 2015" - the Squeeze starts at about 06:30.

    The Tracker/Sidekick and 2-door Wranglers can go through it easy. My KJ had about 1 cm of clearance on either side with the mirrors folded in. It's tight, but I'm able to get through, sometimes with a spotter, sometimes without, depending on the level of gravel in the wash.

    If I'm going to get another Liberty, I am leaning towards the newer KK:
    (a) a KJ would be at least 10 years old, which makes me nervous, especially if it has been used off-road in any serious manner.
    (b) there were window regulator recalls on the KJ (all 4 were replaced on my KJ)

    A 2011-2012 would get me the youngest available Liberty. But I don't really know if it will fit through the Squeeze. I'd hate to get a KK, only to discover I can't go to a favourite place and then have to sell the KK and get a KJ.

    I don't know where to find the authoritative specs, So I've checked the dimensions on Wikipedia articles for KJ & KK:

    Jeep Liberty KJ
    Wheelbase 104.2 in (2,650 mm)
    Length
    2001-04: 174.2 in (4,420 mm)
    2005-07: 174.7 in (4,440 mm)
    Width
    2001-04: 71.1 in (1,810 mm)
    2005-07: 71.8 in (1,820 mm)
    Height
    2001-04: 73.2 in (1,860 mm)
    2005-07: 69.8 in (1,770 mm)

    Jeep Liberty KK
    Wheelbase 106.1 in (2,690 mm)
    Length
    176.9 in (4,490 mm) (2008-2010)
    176.1 in (4,473 mm) (2011-2013)
    Width
    72.4 in (1,840 mm) (2008-2010)
    73.1 in (1,857 mm) (2011-2013)
    Height
    74.9 in (1,900 mm) (2008-2010)
    71.3 in (1,811 mm) (2011-2013)

    So comparing width & length:
    wheelbase: 2012 KK is 1.9" longer than 2007 KJ
    length: 2012 KK is 1.4" longer than the 2007 KJ
    width: 2012 KK is 1.3" wider than the 2007 KJ

    I note also that the 2008-2010 KK was 0.8" longer but 0.7" shorter than the 2011-2013 KK, but both are longer and wider than the 2007 KJ. The KK is also much more square than the KJ, perhaps further hampering its ability to squeeze through narrow places.

    I'm not particularly concerned about the angles - getting through The Squeeze is more of an issue with length/width.

    The other off-the-wall choice I have is to get a new Jeep Renegade Trailhawk, but I don't really know if it is as rugged and as capable as the Liberty.

    Questions:
    1. can I trust those Wikipedia measurements - am I comparing the same things?

    2. are those length/width differences between the KJ and KK significant (in the context of "The Squeeze"), enough to warrant choosing to get a much older KJ over a relatively new KK?

    3. is the Renegade as rugged and as capable as the Liberty off-road? Should I be considering it or is just too cute and lightweight.

    I'm not looking for something "better" than my old KJ - I'm just looking for something with at least the same off-road capability.

    Thanks
     
  2. Tog

    Tog Full Access Member

    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Location:
    AU
    I have 04 KJ and 2010 Kk IMHO KJ wins everytime.

    2004 3.7 limited
     
  3. HoosierJeeper

    HoosierJeeper Gold Supporter/Admin Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    20,697
    Likes Received:
    72
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Location:
    Western WI
    Those Wiki specs seem weird with all the differences between years.
    I'd go KJ or Renegade Trailhawk. The KJ is easier to modify though, the Renegade you'd have to be content with it stock for now. But they are awesome Jeeps and probably more maneuverable than the KJ. Had one as a loaner once and it was really nice.
     
  4. tommudd

    tommudd Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,445
    Likes Received:
    274
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Location:
    Southeastern Ohio
    KJ all the way 02-05 model years
     
  5. djtimyd

    djtimyd Full Access Member

    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2017
    Location:
    Colorado
    you say you wrecked your KJ...

    if you get another KJ AND if you kept your wrecked one, now you have a donor vehicle - that is something to consider.

    On the other hand, if you are just looking for a fairly capable vehicle, with low maintenance costs and your aren't going to do any lifting or modifications, then I agree with Hoosier - more up-front cost, but less maintenance - at least in the short term.

    My rig is an XJ, and the wife has an '05 KJ. The older you go, the easier it is to work on. There are also platforms that have more aftermarket support, and as Hoosier said, you go newer, you have to live with stock for the most part.

    In terms of Wikipedia... generally , they are right but then again, I could go out there and edit to page to say that the KJ is 10 feet tall. I would use a used car pricing site like KBB or Edmunds - they have the specs from the manufacture for all the vehicles they provide info for.
     
  6. HoosierJeeper

    HoosierJeeper Gold Supporter/Admin Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    20,697
    Likes Received:
    72
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Location:
    Western WI
    My main gripe against the Renegade is that it doesn't have the space inside of a KJ or XJ. I actually think my XJ has more room than the KJ. Although an XJ is the same length (give or take of a Renegade), the KJ is the biggest of the bunch.

    I would go test drive a Renegade if you haven't yet. They're neat Jeeps. I've watched them on the offroad course at the auto show and they do better than everything save the 2 door Wranglers. The rear locker and traction control help offset for the less flex they have.
     
  7. towpro

    towpro Full Access Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2017
    Location:
    SE pa
    get TOG to fold in his mirrors on his KK, open his windows, and run a tape measure from outside one mirror to the outside of other.
     
  8. Cardhu

    Cardhu Full Access Member

    Messages:
    683
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Location:
    Great White North
    What lift did you put on your 2007 KJ? Is it worth porting over or was part of totaling the KJ involve suspension damage.

    the new renegade is nice but i'd drive one before committing and much less options to modify. If you've got a tire size in mind that your hoping to get to, you'll have more options with the KJ for lift, gearing, and others.
     
  9. libordemise

    libordemise Full Access Member

    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2017
    Location:
    CA
    I also crashed my kj which I loved. Now I just bought a 2017 wrangler because I don't know why. I wanted an sfa so.bad the salesman made it easy to sign the deal.

    We live and we learn. Now i see all these kjs rolling around and I think damn... I could.have done an sfa swap for less than half the 48k I spent on this new jk

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
     
  10. tommudd

    tommudd Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,445
    Likes Received:
    274
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Location:
    Southeastern Ohio
    Plus now you have a belly button Jeep ( in the JK ):icon_razz::icon_razz:
    Go to any mall, 10 JKs all with too many bolt on parts
    but one or even if you're lucky sometimes two built KJs that stand out way more :happy175:
     
  11. libordemise

    libordemise Full Access Member

    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2017
    Location:
    CA
    Oh I know.. total cookie cutter. I'm not happy

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
     
  12. mrlavalamp

    mrlavalamp Full Access Member

    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    25
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Location:
    Sin City
    Not trying to rub it in, but you also spent 48k on that cookie.

    I don't know if I could spend that much on something, and be able to play in the dirt with it. It would probably turn into a mall crawler the first couple years if I owned it, mainly because I would be too afraid of scratches nicks and dings, never mind risk of an actual crash or serious body damage.

    Of course, I could never understand how people shell out HEAPS of money for new vehicles in general. Reliability is one thing, but you dont need to spend 1/3 of what my house is worth to get it.

    But hey, I am sure lots of folks look at my 06 KJ and cannot fathom why I keep spending money on it, both on repairs and upgrades.
     
  13. tommudd

    tommudd Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,445
    Likes Received:
    274
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Location:
    Southeastern Ohio
    Just joking with you :icon_razz:
     
  14. libordemise

    libordemise Full Access Member

    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2017
    Location:
    CA
    Well, on the one hand.. i never knew what repair was coming next with my kj as I did wheel it pretty hard, now I feel semi confident in driving way out into the mountains to visit family during the winter. I definitely miss my kj though. As for the fact it was so much $$$; this will definitely hold its value, I'm able enough on trails to not damage it (fingers crossed emoticon) so maybe in 4 years I sell it and get something else. I have to.give it up to that sales guy... I would never have thought about making this deal until I signed it.

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
     
  15. libordemise

    libordemise Full Access Member

    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2017
    Location:
    CA
    Yeah I know, but I actually agree.

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
     
  16. jagyuma

    jagyuma New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Location:
    Yuma
    First of all, sorry for the delay in responding to your posts - I was busy in travel mode.

    Secondly, thanks to everyone for all of the good information. In no particular order:

    1. no, I don't have the Jeep anymore - the insurance company got it

    2. it was a Daystar 2" lift, but it doesn't matter - I don't have the Jeep or the lift parts

    3. if 02-05 was so good, what was wrong with 06-07? I did have all of the window regulators in my 2007 replaced under warranty. Was that a problem in other years too? Did they eventually fix/re-design them?

    4. Yes, I am looking for a capable vehicle out of the box. I'll do the 2" lift again, but that's about it for mods.

    I do like the Renegade Trailhawk and the Cherokee Trailhawk too. I've driven them both on the street. They are nice - almost too nice and car-like. Notwithstanding the fancy transmissions, hill descent, low-range, etc. - how do they do in the rough stuff? I'm concerned about ruggedness and clearance. The Liberty was heavy - lots of iron. I trusted it in the rough stuff. I'm not sure the Renegade/Trailhawk are up to it. Are they? Yes, I've seen the test drive videos of those 2 vehicles on the Moab trails. But those are mostly easy gravel/sand/dirt and/or smooth sandstone - you could drive a cadillac over the same roads. I'm concerned about rough roads filled with boulders.

    5. When I had the Liberty, I would always be dragging the centre on the hump in the middle of the road. When I got the 2" lift, all of that disappeared and I never touched bottom again. If the Renegade has similar clearance as the Liberty but can't be lifted, then I'm going to be back to dragging again, with no solution.

    I didn't put it in my original post, but ground clearance is 7.8 on both KJ & KK. The Renegade Trailhawk has 8.7, which is much better. If I put 2" lift on my Liberty, did that give me 1" more on ground clearance, e.g. 8.8"? If so, then that's very close to the Renegade Trailhawk. If I'm dragging in the centre of the Renegade Trailhawk, there's no way to fix it, right?

    6. True, the Renegade is a small vehicle. Perhaps 4 people would have just as much problem in the 4-door Renegade as in the 2-door Wrangler. That's why the Liberty was so good - 4-doors, lots of room, and very capable.

    7. If it matters, I need this vehicle only for Arizona/Utah - all dry, gravel, boulders, slickrock, etc. I don't intend to drive it in the east where there's mud, wet, tree roots etc.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  17. Casey.N

    Casey.N Full Access Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Location:
    TX
    id look for an 05 liberty renegade
     
  18. JasonJ

    JasonJ Full Access Member

    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    43
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Location:
    Michigan
    What the hell kind of roads are you driving on that you constantly scrape the middle of the bottom of the KJ? Must be some seriously deep ruts in that two-track.

    Depending on the source, ground clearance for my '03, for example, range from 7.9" minimum, up to 8.9 inches.

    From autoblog.com:

    EXTERIOR
    Length 174.4 "
    Body width 71.6 "
    Body height 70.2 "
    Wheelbase 104.3 "
    Ground clearance 8.9 "
    Curb 4,070 Lbs.
    Gross weight 5,600 Lbs.

    From 2003 Jeep Liberty Renegade 4WD - 4x4Review Off Road Magazine:

    They state 9.6 for an 03 Renegade.. but I'm not sure I'd believe that. Realistically, with non-sagged suspension, the KJ should be at about 8.0" or just above.
     
  19. HoosierJeeper

    HoosierJeeper Gold Supporter/Admin Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    20,697
    Likes Received:
    72
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Location:
    Western WI
    The 2" Daystar lift wouldn't give you 2" of lift since it reuses stock, worn out parts. Get OME springs and your choice of shocks, you'll probably be sitting at 10-11" under the front skid without adding extras to the lift.

    Sounds like you might want to get another KJ. I don't think you can get the same ground clearance under a Rene or KL yet.
     
  20. tommudd

    tommudd Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,445
    Likes Received:
    274
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Location:
    Southeastern Ohio
    I HAVE HEARD IT ALSO RAINS IN ARIZONA AND UTAH AND SOME PLACES EVEN HAVE TREES, BUT THEN THAT COULD ALL BE FAKE NEWS . BUT THEN WHEN I HAVE BEEN IN THOSE STATES, I COULD OF SWORN I SAW RAIN AND TREES , BUT COULD OF JUST BEEN HIGH OR DRUNK. :gr_grin: