Cooling Fan issues

[sfiforlife]

Hello,

I own a 2004 Jeep Liberty V6 with 180K miles.

I recently changed the coolant (complete flush) and used the proper coolant from Chrysler (orange HOAT). I made sure that all the air was out of the system by opening the nut on the upper hose until the bubbles went away.

Now when I drive the car on the highway, the coolant boils and splashes out of the reservoir (Not from the cap but from the release valve at the top of the reservoir and white smoke comes out of the hood as the coolant drips on the hot engine. The most surprising fact though is that the Temp on the thermostat in "NORMAL" it goes up to halfway as the car warms up and stays there while the coolant is boiling. I am sure that the cap is sealed properly.

One very important thing I noticed is that the cooling fan does not come on when the heater is turned on. When the A/C is on it turns on for 3 seconds and turns off for 5 then repeats over and over again. I get both cold air and hot air as advertised.

I checked fuses and they were all good. But I went ahead and swapped them with other compatible fuses (40s) and still no fix.

I swapped Hi FAN and Low FAN relays (There are 4 identical/swappable relays and I tried all configurations) with no fix.

I OPENED the Hi fan relay to see what is was doing. It was making contact for the 3 seconds the fan would operate and break contact for 5 seconds as the fan would stop and then repeat. So I held the contact manually with a screw driver and the fan would continue to run no problem.

I tried doing this with the Low FAN relay but the contact was always intact as if the Low fan should be on at all times but it is not. The socket in which the Low fan relay resides makes any relay stay in contact (energized) with out the fan running at all and I cant break the contact while its energized.....


My question is:

1. Is the Low FAN relay supposed to start off with it in contact (energized) ? If so, is the fan supposed to be ON and in low?

2. Why is my High FAN relay making intermittent contact every few seconds when the A/C is turned on?

3. Why does NO fan come on when the heater is on?

4. With all this information provided so far, what do you think might be the problem?

P.S The cooling fan is electric with no belts attached.

Thank you very much.

 

[tommudd]

Did it start right after you flushed it or how long afterwards ?
Did you replace the thermostat when you flushed it?
How was it flushed?

 

[sfiforlife]

Did it start right after you flushed it or how long afterwards ?
Did you replace the thermostat when you flushed it?
How was it flushed?

The boiling started right after, yes.

To be honest I never paid the radiator fan much attention until the coolant started boiling AFTER the flush. All I know is that now that I did pay attention to it, it is not operating at a normal capacity (low fan never comes on, low/hi fan never comes on with heater on, hi fan only comes on for 3 secs when AC is ON. That is abnormal)

I did not replace the thermostat. Although should a thermostat cause the radiator fan to act in such an odd way as described above?

I drained the fluids from the bottom hose. poured water in the coolant reservoir until no more color came out. I then filled it with water and ran it with the heater on max until normal temp. Flushed again and repeated this process 5 times until absolutely no color was coming out the bottom or top hose. Then I attached all hoses and filled completely with 50/50 HOAT coolant from Chrysler. I also put the hose into the heater core behind the firewall and performed a reverse flush on it as well.

Do you think it might be just a coincidence that a new problem occurred with the radiator fan after the flush? Or are you starting to assume that there is a problem with the flush itself? How do you explain the radiators fan behavior?

Thank you

 

[ltd02]

I think my 02 fan is quite a bit different than your 04 so can't help with that. I'm still trying to figure out where your coolant is "boiling" out of. I must be missing something. The cap is the pressure relief on mine. I don't have another place for it to go out of my reservoir. A picture might help.

 

[sfiforlife]

I think my 02 fan is quite a bit different than your 04 so can't help with that. I'm still trying to figure out where your coolant is "boiling" out of. I must be missing something. The cap is the pressure relief on mine. I don't have another place for it to go out of my reservoir. A picture might help.

Here is a pic of my exact reservoir (on ebay). If you look at the top right of the reservoir you will notice a small valve that is used for overflow in the outer right compartment. It is extremely close to the firewall so it ends up splashing all over the reservoir itself as it hits the wall.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Sephiroth]

After I replace my Radiator for the 3rd time my coolant started boiling, bought a new reservoir cap and that fixed the problem, the temperature was fine but you could hear and see the coolant boiling in the reservoir by the firewall The pressure increases the boiling point of coolant, if there is no pressure (16 psi on the jeep, I think) the coolant boiling point is lower so it will boil before the rad fan starts up which is at around 219 F if I remember correctly. check the seal of the cap, mine had a little crack my guess is that the system is not keeping pressure.

 

[sfiforlife]

After I replace my Radiator for the 3rd time my coolant started boiling, bought a new reservoir cap and that fixed the problem, the temperature was fine but you could hear and see the coolant boiling in the reservoir by the firewall The pressure increases the boiling point of coolant, if there is no pressure (16 psi on the jeep, I think) the coolant boiling point is lower so it will boil before the rad fan starts up which is at around 219 F if I remember correctly. check the seal of the cap, mine had a little crack my guess is that the system is not keeping pressure.

I will purchase a new cap. Now don't you think the test i did with the relays for the fan is abnormal ? Shouldn't my low fan come on when energized? Also why is my Hi fan relay switching on and off every 3-5 seconds, yet when i hold it manually to energize, it runs with out a problem?

 

[Sephiroth]

I am not sure about the fans to be honest, if the heater is on there is a good chance that the coolant is not reaching the 219 necessary to trigger the fan on signal as the heater core is cooling down the coolant. if the A/C is on the fan should stay on as to cool the evap core unless you A/C has a low charge triggering on a off the compressor constantly. :shrug:

 

[ltd02]

Wish I could help with the fan issue but like I said pretty sure the 02 were a single speed. It does sound abnormal since, like Sephiroth said,the fan should stay on with the AC unless low charge. Something is amiss.

Sounds like you got the rad cap issue solved. The rad cap is the pressure relief valve that lets the coolant out of that tube if pressure is exceeded or the cap is failing. That's sort of what I thought you meant but wasn't sure. Thought maybe someone had changed the tank somehow. Like Sephiroth said, pressure increases the boiling point. So if you don't have pressure=boiling. Pretty sure the rad cap should help. Did you actually have heat through all this? When my cap failed it didn't boil over but my heat was really weak.

 

[ltd02]

Here is a pic of my exact reservoir (on ebay). If you look at the top right of the reservoir you will notice a small valve that is used for overflow in the outer right compartment. It is extremely close to the firewall so it ends up splashing all over the reservoir itself as it hits the wall.

You must be registered for see images attach

I read your description more carefully and got confused. The tube away from the cap (upper right with the spring clamp) actually comes back from the radiator near the upper rad hose. There is no valve in there. Coolant usually flows from the rad back to the reservoir, not from the reservoir to the rad. Is this what you meant? If this is leaking you may have plugged it when flushing. Pull the hose and clamp and make sure the nipple is not plugged. Might have to pull the reservoir and give it a good cleaning too.

 

[ltd02]

BTW here's what can happen if you connect those two reservoir hoses in reverse, OUCH:

Dropped Valve - Vehicle Overheated - JeepForum.com

In the first image you can actually see the coolant flowing into the reservoir near the cap from the incorrectly placed hose.

 

[sfiforlife]

I read your description more carefully and got confused. The tube away from the cap (upper right with the spring clamp) actually comes back from the radiator near the upper rad hose. There is no valve in there. Coolant usually flows from the rad back to the reservoir, not from the reservoir to the rad. Is this what you meant? If this is leaking you may have plugged it when flushing. Pull the hose and clamp and make sure the nipple is not plugged. Might have to pull the reservoir and give it a good cleaning too.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post. I appreciate all the help that I can get.

The tube in which the reservoir deposed coolant from is not a tube with any hose or clamp on. If you look at where the right bolt is supposed to go into the firewall, slightly to its left you will see a tiny outlet (slightly hard to tell that its an outlet but its there sticking out in the picture. So it is not a disconnected hose

 

[sfiforlife]

BTW here's what can happen if you connect those two reservoir hoses in reverse, OUCH:

Dropped Valve - Vehicle Overheated - JeepForum.com

In the first image you can actually see the coolant flowing into the reservoir near the cap from the incorrectly placed hose.

Ouch! I triple checked and made sure the hoses are connected to their proper locations

 

[sfiforlife]

Wish I could help with the fan issue but like I said pretty sure the 02 were a single speed. It does sound abnormal since, like Sephiroth said,the fan should stay on with the AC unless low charge. Something is amiss.

Sounds like you got the rad cap issue solved. The rad cap is the pressure relief valve that lets the coolant out of that tube if pressure is exceeded or the cap is failing. That's sort of what I thought you meant but wasn't sure. Thought maybe someone had changed the tank somehow. Like Sephiroth said, pressure increases the boiling point. So if you don't have pressure=boiling. Pretty sure the rad cap should help. Did you actually have heat through all this? When my cap failed it didn't boil over but my heat was really weak.

I will definitely change the cap. Thats an easy replacement. The radiator fan still concerns me though and I don't think has anything to do with the cap

 

[Sephiroth]

I read your description more carefully and got confused. The tube away from the cap (upper right with the spring clamp) actually comes back from the radiator near the upper rad hose. There is no valve in there. Coolant usually flows from the rad back to the reservoir, not from the reservoir to the rad. Is this what you meant? If this is leaking you may have plugged it when flushing. Pull the hose and clamp and make sure the nipple is not plugged. Might have to pull the reservoir and give it a good cleaning too.

The hose that goes out of the cap goes into the overflow (the whiter "cleaner" part of the reservoir) which has a "niple" facing toward the firewall to vent the pressure, hence getting too much coolant in there it end up splashing out onto the firewall going straight down into the exhaust manifold and cat.

 

[ltd02]

The hose that goes out of the cap goes into the overflow (the whiter "cleaner" part of the reservoir) which has a "niple" facing toward the firewall to vent the pressure, hence getting too much coolant in there it end up splashing out onto the firewall going straight down into the exhaust manifold and cat.

Thanks Sephiroth. This is good info. I guess I never fully understood how that multi-chambered coolant reservoir worked. Embarrassed too, since I've had this thing for over 7 years. My 11 Avenger has the same system but my other 3 have the rad cap on the radiator and a nonpressurized siphon reservoir.

So that tube by the cap just redirects the overflow/overpressure out to the back instead of out around the cap when the cap fails or there is an overpressure situation. I guess the extra chamber can hold a bit too but once it get full then out the nipple it goes. So that part is completely open all the time but never sees coolant unless the cap pressure is exceeded and fills the extra chamber.

I see the OPs issue then and am pretty sure the new rad cap will solve that one but wish I could help with that fan issue. That sounds like a more serious problem.

 

[sfiforlife]

I went ahead and placed a new Rad cap on order along with a new thermostat (incase it is not opening all the way and just forcefully pushing it back in the reservoir. I will install both next week and let you know how it goes

I am getting voltage on both high fan and low fan via the connector that goes to the electric fan. So Im still unsure as to why the fan is not running in low and is turning on and off for hours when AC is on. Might just be how its supposed to operate when its cold outside? We shall see once parts are installed if my coolant boils.

 

[ltd02]

Might just be how its supposed to operate when its cold outside? We shall see once parts are installed if my coolant boils.

I'm starting to wonder if that's it too. As an alternative, since it seems like everything upstream is okay, is it possible the fan itself is going bad? Can you just hitch a powere source to it directly and see how it behaves?

 

[sfiforlife]

I'm starting to wonder if that's it too. As an alternative, since it seems like everything upstream is okay, is it possible the fan itself is going bad? Can you just hitch a powere source to it directly and see how it behaves?

I manually forced the Hi Fan relay to energize by taking off the relay cover and holding it in the ON position while watching the fan. It ran with no problems.

The Low Fan relay on the other hand would not do anything at all and was already in the "energized position" the entire time.... I swapped relays and still no change on the Low fan side. It would not turn on even when energized.

power is going through though from the relay to the fan connector itself on both Low Fan and Hi fan when the relays are energized. Im not sure if this is normal operations or not. If not, then I have a bad fan since it does not come on while the Low fan relay is energized and sending power to the fan...

 

[sfiforlife]

Update

So I went ahead and replaced the coolant cap along with the thermostat.

I also happened to test my voltage output on the fan connector and realized that it was showing proper voltage applied, telling the fan to turn on in low and in high yet the fan was just not working in low and was intermittent in high.

I went ahead and replaced my fan and it runs like a champ!

I was going to test drive the Jeep to make sure the coolant does not boil any more until I noticed yet a different problem which I will post in a separate thread about an odd oil pool/leak.