Bad heating issue (sorry for another thread!)

[USCGjeep]

Hey everybody, sorry about posting another thread on this. It just seems every other one i start reading into they sort of go off on different tangents and stuff. soo anyways i bought an '02 liberty sport in fall with 63k on her. Ofcourse, check AC but not heat, get back from being underway and it's 14 out and my heat hardly works at all. Barely works on 1 setting, any higher and it just gets cool. So here is everything that has been done to try and correct it so far..

-Completely drained coolant
-Full flush/backflush of heater core, radiator and the block. Plus an antifreeze cleaner...my antifreeze was extremely dirty and sedimenty so whoever filled this up mustve tapped their well dry and just decided to put in mud. (antifreeze comes out like antifreeze now)
-changed thermostat, brand new (inserted correctly)
-New upper radiator hose
-New engine coolant temperature sensor
-Bleed out after topping back off.

So there's everything so far. So now i get heat up to about the third setting. 1/2 are decent and warm, but 3 and 4 sort of lukewarm. I have no radiator leak or heater core leak, heater core had good flow after flushing and same with block and radiator.

I do smell a little antifreeze inside when my heat is on, but my uncle spilled some of the antifreeze when topping it off and i don't think it's just burned off yet.

I just got back from soccer and decided to check hoses....
heater core hoses are both hot in/out
Radiator hose--only top is HOT, bottom was cold (right after i shut my jeep off i felt it), so is there still an air lock somewhere and i should try bleeding it again? maybe we didn't fully bleed it out earlier?

Sorry i jumped around, hopefully ya'll can follow what i was saying :shrug:

 

[renegade 04]

How hot on the temperature gauge does it warm up to?

 

[USCGjeep]

How hot on the temperature gauge does it warm up to?

Temperature gauge heats up to right about the middle, right about where it should be

 

[Birdman330]

I almost want to say this lies with the heater core itself.

 

[profdlp]

You said the old coolant was like mud. It sounds like the previous owner used the wrong coolant and it coagulated. Mine looked like cottage cheese when I bought it. If Birdman330 is right that could well have clogged the heater core.

 

[USCGjeep]

You said the old coolant was like mud. It sounds like the previous owner used the wrong coolant and it coagulated. Mine looked like cottage cheese when I bought it. If Birdman330 is right that could well have clogged the heater core.

Yes the stuff was pretty bad. Brown and nasty with some buildup, but we completely flushed the system and we have good flow coming out of the heater core lines from flushing and back flushing it multiple times, i imagine if it was clogged still we wouldn't get good flow, correct? Also, prior to flushing the core the supply line to heater core was hot and discharge from it was alot cooler as if it was getting bad flow through there. Now they both run hot as they're supposed to.

p.s...i will obviously try and rule out every single other possibility before resorting to replace my heater core :throw:

 

[profdlp]

Never done it, but everything I've heard says that replacing the heater core is a job-and-a-half. If your hose are hot on both ends then it may be alright.

You might look through this thread for ideas:

---> http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f196/dreaded-no-heat-57293/

Apparently, bleeding these things completely can take some doing.

 

[LibertyTC]

The jeep is picky about using a Mopar thermostat & bleeding the air out.
Every morning, lift hood, check the cold line on the reservoir, if it drops, top it off to the cold line. GO for a drive get it nice and hot. Check for a few days!
Now open the hex bleed - top rad hose- with a rag handy, noting coolant flow, with a bit of bubbles first? Close Hex Screw down.
Did you use the Mopar thermostat with the bleed hole on top edge?
I did not see that you bought HOAT coolant is that what you used or..??
When you water flush the system you normally use 100% full strength HOAT only.
An antifreeze tester should be utilized, what is your reading? -40?

 

[TwoBobsKJ]

^^^

Do what Tim says right there and post back. We'll get ya warmed up :waytogo:

Just an FYI... The heater core is the "bypass" type in which there can appear to be good flow but the hot fluid is not actually running through the entire core - instead it's just coming in the supply side and flipping around to come out the return side. With as much gunk as you flushed out I wouldn't be surprised if there's still material in there. I would guess the incorrect coolant was used (HOAT only as Tim said) or the previous owner never flushed the system. Given how low the mileage is on your '02 it could be that it was never serviced - coolant should be flushed based as much on time as mileage.

Flush the entire thing again with HOAT coolant (or take to the dealer - they're surprisingly inexpensive for coolant flushes) and see if things improve.

Bob

 

[jeepguy4276]

I fixed the same issue last summer. Did all you did and replaced the core. Mine turned out to be the water pump or a mixture of it all now I have good heat. That's just what happened to be the fix on mine anyway I think most end up being the heater core but that's a big job. I wish I would have done the pump first.

 

[USCGjeep]

I fixed the same issue last summer. Did all you did and replaced the core. Mine turned out to be the water pump or a mixture of it all now I have good heat. That's just what happened to be the fix on mine anyway I think most end up being the heater core but that's a big job. I wish I would have done the pump first.

Could somebody explain where the water pump would integrate into the cooling/heating system? (My uncle is mainly the one troubleshooting for me) If the water pump does happen to be going, working poorly, maybe grudged up etc etc... wouldn't I notice signs of overheating? Thank you!


p.s it was a mere -6 this morning and it's still only 4 out so I won't be doing anything on it today :thumbsdown:

 

[Birdman330]

^^^

Do what Tim says right there and post back. We'll get ya warmed up :waytogo:

Just an FYI... The heater core is the "bypass" type in which there can appear to be good flow but the hot fluid is not actually running through the entire core - instead it's just coming in the supply side and flipping around to come out the return side. With as much gunk as you flushed out I wouldn't be surprised if there's still material in there. I would guess the incorrect coolant was used (HOAT only as Tim said) or the previous owner never flushed the system. Given how low the mileage is on your '02 it could be that it was never serviced - coolant should be flushed based as much on time as mileage.

Flush the entire thing again with HOAT coolant (or take to the dealer - they're surprisingly inexpensive for coolant flushes) and see if things improve.

Bob

Forgive me for being a little lacked on the knowledge here but I will ask an incredibly stupid question can the heater core be accessed without dismantling the whole dash to see if its hot?

 

[USCGjeep]

Forgive me for being a little lacked on the knowledge here but I will ask an incredibly stupid question can the heater core be accessed without dismantling the whole dash to see if its hot?

From everything i've read from the countless threads and the shop manual i have, nope. Whole dash must be removed, all you can check besides that is the supply and discharge hoses, but that's about it..please correct me anybody else if i'm wrong!

 

[LibertyMan02]

Tis true! I tried every way to get to it, even trying through the radio hole, but it's a closed in pocket. The whole dash must be removed. Ain't like them old Fords where it's right there on the pas side. Water pump is mounted on the front cover. It's a handfull of bolts. Pretty easy to take off. Pulley can stay on.

 

[USCGjeep]

water pump is just that piece in the top right correct? the impeller is on the backside of it and fits in the gold swirly spot?

 

[uss2defiant]

yes you are correct.

 

[LibertyTC]

Non HOAT coolant products can degrade/damage the water pump's plastic impeller.
That can easily leave you with reduced flow.
Replacing pump makes good sense if you believe non Hoat coolant has been used for any extended period.
Heater core is dash removal time 4 sure.

 

[USCGjeep]

Well, I suppose I'll have to pick up a water pump and go that route and hope that the impeller has been just been damaged and we used non-HOAT after flushing and cleaning everything out. It took alot to clean out all the brown and muck, but now the coolant actually looks like coolant..granted it'll still clean some out at it's in there longer and runs i'm sure. But i'll have to do the water pump and let you guys know if that works and i'll pick up some HOAT. Do i cut it 50/50 distilled still? Thanks!

it's -10 today though soooooo it'll be waiting haha

 

[Hockeygoon]

I wouldn't be to quick to replace the water pump. Simple check - get the engine up to operating temp then turn the heater fan on high. If the air coming from the vents is only "kinda warm" but the return line from the heater core is still hot (let it run this way for a while) its not the water pump - its reduce flow inside your heater core.


I would also take a second shot at flushing the heater core before I tore into the dash. Run water through the lines then blow air through them to get as much water out of the heater core as possible. After it is as empty as possible I'd fill it with CLR for about half an hour then flush it with a lot of water again. CLR is some nasty stuff (will eat your paint so be careful with it) and some people claim it will cause leaks but its worked for me on several old vehicles - the last one was a 1990 Bronco that had no heat after several flushes.

 

[USCGjeep]

Another question...which radiator hose is which? Is the bottom hose with the thermostat the discharge from the block to the radiator and the top hose the discharge from radiator back into the block, or vice versa? Because after driving and my jeep warming up and temperature gauge sitting at middle as always and everything, that bottom radiator hose is cold. Top is hot, bottom cold. Could the new thermostat (not MOPAR btw) be bad out of the box, didn't test it in boiling water prior, but I know it happens that they can be bad when new...?