2003 Liberty 2.4L - Is it possible I have the wrong starter? (SOLVED)

psyon

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I have a couple other threads here from me chasing down a starting problem. It turns the engine for a split second, and then disengages and just spins. I thought I had it narrowed down to the battery cables, but I just replaced them, and the problem persists. Yesterday, I disconnected the wire from the PDC and alternator, so that power was only going to the starter, hooked a jumper cable to the body of the starter back to negative on the batery, and then used a remote switch to crank it over. Same problem. Isolating it from the rest of the electrical system, and still having the issue means starter or flywheel. I posted a video of my flywheel in another topic. There is some marring in the front, but no missing teeth or anything. The marring may be caused by the starter rubbing now that it's not saying engaged though. While inspecting the flywheel, I noticed these "shadows" on the teeth (I marked with red in the picture), which I assume are where the starter gear normally contacts the flywheel teeth, but, from my rough measurements, there is no way the starter can physically reach that far back on the flywheel. So far I have only been able to measure by being under the Jeep holding a tape meaure in place, while I had someone else look down from the top and see if they could tell how far in it is. It's roughly 1/2" to the face of the flywheel (ring gear?), and the flywheel is about 1/2" deep as well. I know it's probably all spec'd to metric, but all I had handy was a tape measure with inches. I read some discussions about ****** to flywheel distances being different in manual transmissions vs automatic transmissions, but was the 2.4L engine ever available with a manual transmission? I guess the real questions I have now are this:

1. What should the distance from the ****** to the flywheel be? Is it possible it shifted?

2. How much engangement should there be to the flywheel? Am I wrong about the "shadows", does it not go in that far?

3. The previous starter worked from June to Dec, and then stopped working. The new started has never worked, and does the exact same thing as the one I most recently replaced. Is there any chance the new starter just has the same flaw as the one I just replaced?

4. The photos on Autozones site for the starter I ordered, don't match the starter I was given twice now, but the starter I have looks like all other starters I can find for the 2003 2.4L Jeep liberty. The photos on Autozones site do show a longer nose, but it also shows an extra mounting hole. I have no clue which one is right, but what are the chances they gave me the wrong starter twice? I initially replace the starter back in June, and I turned in the bad one for core when I ordered the new one, and didn't have the old and new one to compare when the new one came. When I got them to give me a new starter a couple weeks ago, the new one matched the one I had just taken off. Both have the same part number, but neither matches the pictures.

5. Does anyone know the difference between part number 56041436AB used for the 2003, and 56041436AC used for the 2004 and 2005?

This is the starter I got from AZ, but the pictures here don't match what I received twice.

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psyon

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The word f l a n g e is censored above for some reason?
 

turblediesel

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It's a durogatory term for woman in England.

If Autozone has the wrong part in it's database that's what they'll hand you every time. The picture of a starter in their database might just be "representative" of a typical starter but not exactly your application. The diesel KJ engine is a 4 cylinder as well so maybe that starter is what you're being handed. As odd as the diesel KJs are I think the 2.4L gas engined KJs might be more obscure. The 2.4L was available with a manual transmission but I doubt there would be a different starter for automatic or manual transmissions. The ring gear dimensions and location should be the same, just mounted on a flexplate or flywheel.

Starter gear should completely engage the ringgear teeth except for initial engagement when some tooth to tooth bashing may happen.

In my experience a starter that engages and then spins freely indicates a bad bendix drive. The bendix drive consists of the srarter gear attached to a sealed ratcheting mechanism that allows for the engine to overspeed the starter motor when it fires up until you let go of the key allowing the starter gear to retract. Bendix drives usually fail gradually developing a bad spot allowing the starter to spin freely and do nothing even with the gear teeth fully engaged. The bad spot in the bendix's ratcheting mechanism can be worked around for awhile until it fails completely.

The odds of two new starters having bad bendix drives are pretty bad so you might be on the right path in thinking you've been sold the wrong starter. Otherwise it might be an ignition circuit problem; relay, switch, or associated wiring. I can't think of any ignition problem that would allow the starter to spin freely.
 

psyon

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The odds of two new starters having bad bendix drives are pretty bad so you might be on the right path in thinking you've been sold the wrong starter. Otherwise it might be an ignition circuit problem; relay, switch, or associated wiring. I can't think of any ignition problem that would allow the starter to spin freely.
That's why I isolated the starter from everything else and tried it with the remote start switch hooked from the solenoid to the battery. The problem persisted even when not going through the relays and other ignition wiring. All that was hooked up was positive to starter, and then grounds coming back from engine to battery, but also an extra jumper cable from the body of the starter to the battery. Oh, and the switch between the solenoid and the positive on the battery. The grounds are all brand new cables replaced a couple days ago.
 

psyon

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Does anyone know the difference between part number 56041436AB used for the 2003, and 56041436AC used for the 2004 and 2005?
 

psyon

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I have some maintenence receipts from the past owner. In 2019 a Chrysler-Dodge dealer replaced the starter with part number R6041436AC, which is the remanufactureed 56041436AC. Various mopar sites say the AC is not compatible with the 2003 though, but some say it is.
 

jeepop

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I do not know the difference. RockAuto shows the AC for the 2004 and the AB for the 2003 for the 2.4. You need like an old school chrysler parts expert. I don't think you can get anyone at RockAuto on the phone.

I cannot wait for you to get this running!
 

Johnny O

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Best place to start for correct part numbers is the factory service manual and parts fiche. These are available at Colorado4wheel.com:

 

psyon

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Best place to start for correct part numbers is the factory service manual and parts fiche. These are available at:

I have the manual. What I can't tell is whether or not the differenece between the AB and AC is significant or not, and if there is a way to tell them apart.
 

DadOSix

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Usually when the 'body' of the part num ber stays the same, but the suffix changes, it is a superseded part. Interchangeable, but the higher the letter, the newer to the revision.

Ie 123456aa
is replaced by 123456ab is replaced by 123456ac.
 

psyon

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Best place to start for correct part numbers is the factory service manual and parts fiche. These are available at Colorado4wheel.com:


I have that. What I need to know is what the differences are between the two part numbers, so I can tell whether or not AZ gave me the wrong part or not.
 

Billwill

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The last 2 Alpha characters ie. AB or AC is just a revision number where some slight improvement has been introduced as compared to say an AA character.

Same with all parts from Mopar.
 

psyon

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Usually when the 'body' of the part num ber stays the same, but the suffix changes, it is a superseded part. Interchangeable, but the higher the letter, the newer to the revision.

Ie 123456aa
is replaced by 123456ab is replaced by 123456ac.

That's what I thought, but when you search part stores for starters for the 2003 vs the 2004, they usually show different starters. The most mopar specific sites say the AB fits my 2003, but not the AC.
 

DadOSix

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That's what I thought, but when you search part stores for starters for the 2003 vs the 2004, they usually show different starters. The most mopar specific sites say the AB fits my 2003, but not the AC.
Interesting.

I jumped on advance auto and there are differences in the starter listed for 2.4l between 03 and 04

So now the question becomes - ate you sure your engine is an 03?

Might be worth the time to take your old starter to the parts store and have compare.

Only other thing i can think is -

If the starter is a reman, and they put a bushing in the holes for the mounting bolts, are the bushings flat to the face of the starter, or sticking proud a bit? If proud, they can be moved with a little persuasion to be flush. Even an 1/8 inch could throw your depth off and not engage the flywheel.
 

psyon

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Might be worth the time to take your old starter to the parts store and have compare.

The most recent one I put on was done under warranty exchange, so the previous starter had to be returned to the store to get the new one. For the one I did back in June, the old one has already been returned for the core charge, because the jeep was running after I put it in.

If the starter is a reman, and they put a bushing in the holes for the mounting bolts, are the bushings flat to the face of the starter, or sticking proud a bit? If proud, they can be moved with a little persuasion to be flush. Even an 1/8 inch could throw your depth off and not engage the flywheel.

No bushings in it.
 

psyon

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Well - i got nothing then if we are certain the engine is 03
Engine serial number is on the back side of the cylinder block. There is only a couple inches of gap between it and the firewall. I can't get my head back there to look, and can't get my inspection camera to route around things. So at this point, I can't say 100% for certain. There is no record of the engine being swapped that I know of though.
 

DadOSix

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See if this helps
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By
Doug Anderson
on
Jul 11, 2013
Chrysler replaced its old SOHC four cylinders with an all-new family of SOHC and DOHC engines in 1995. There were 2.0L SOHC and DOHC versions, along with a 2.4L DOHC that was installed in the FWD cars and minivans.


Over the years, this engine has been used in several other applications including the PT Cruiser, the RWD Liberty and Wrangler, and the SRT4 Neon. It has evolved over the years, too, so there are seven short blocks that use six block castings. So, let’s take a look and see if we can make some sense out of all the changes Chrysler made from ’95 up through ’06, before the 2.4L engine was replaced by
another all new family of “world class” four-cylinders.

1995-2000:
The original casting was a 4621443 block that had a 4621445 bedplate. It was used up through 2000.
2001:
The hole for the oil pressure sender on the passenger side was moved back about 6? in 2001 so it was much closer to the bell housing. It’s a 4621443AB casting.
2002: The oil drainback hole in the head was enlarged in ’02 so there was another “bulge” added to the block on the driver’s side, between the third and fourth cylinders. It’s an all new casting that has 4781655AA on the driver’s side.
2003-2006:
There was another all new FWD block in ’03 that incorporated several more changes, but the most noticeable one was the change in the
location of the hole for the crank sensor; it was moved from the front of the block on the passenger side to the back of the block on the
driver’s side in order to accommodate the new, bolt-on “target ring” for the crank sensor.
There were some other changes made to accommodate the turbo motor, too, including a boss on the passenger side that can be drilled for the oil return from the turbo and an additional oil galley inside the block that’s machined for the four “oil squirters” that are used to help cool the pistons on the turbo motors. Look for a 4781632AA/AB casting.

2003-2004 RWD:
Chrysler installed the 2.4L motor in both the RWD Jeep Wrangler and Liberty beginning in 2003. The RWD block is a unique casting
(53010502AA) that doesn’t have the “ear” that sticks out from the front of the block down by the pan rail on the passenger side of the FWD blocks. These blocks have “RWD” cast on the passenger side so they’re easy to spot. The Catch-22 is that this block was used for both the Wrangler and Liberty in ’03, but only for the Wrangler in ’04 because the Wrangler platform continued to use the old style computer and crankshaft (without “NGC”) through ’04 even though the Liberty got the “NGC” computer along with a new block and crank in ’04.

2004-2005 RWD:
The RWD block was revised in 2004 to accommodate the bolt-on “target ring” with more notches that was used with the new “NGC” computer so the hole for the sensor was moved over to the driver’s side and back toward the bell housing, just like it was on all the ’03 cars. The revised 53010502AB casting was used for the Liberty in ’04 and ’05 and the Wrangler in ’05 and ’06.
 
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