07 4x4 no crank/no start

Discussion in 'KJ General Discussion' started by William McClure, Dec 1, 2020.

  1. William McClure

    William McClure New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020
    Hi out there,
    I bought this vehicle for 400 bucks. That said I was told it needed a starter and trans pan. Replaced starter, still no crank. According to the person i got it from, it ran when it was parked 6 months ago. Jumped out starter at relay, it cranks. I have a solid little round red light on lower left of dash, all I can find on this is that it maybe is not recognizing the key? Scan tools I have can communicate only with air bag system and brake system. Says lost communication and implausible configuration. Is there a way to jump out the key sensor? for lack of solution, I am testing all wires that go through firewall for breaks, but have no idea what to do next. Any help appreciated. Thanks
     
  2. tommudd

    tommudd Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    18,779
    Likes Received:
    773
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Location:
    Southeastern Ohio
    Sounds like it has a factory security alarm on it

    is the light to the right of the gas gauge ?
    small red light ?

    If so it security light, you have a cheap copy of the key you need to start it
     
  3. Billwill

    Billwill Full Access Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    324
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Location:
    White River, South Africa
    Check all the fuses are OK and also try swap over the ASD relay with an identical one nearby.

    Normally a bad chipped key will still let the engine turn over....could be a bad Actuator Pin Assembly or bad ignition switch stopping it turning over.

    Get back to us as regards exactly where this red LED is located.;)
     
  4. William McClure

    William McClure New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020
    yeah, thats the one. I have one key, and its original
     
  5. William McClure

    William McClure New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020
    yeah, thats the light. I have checked the ignition switch and actuator, no issues there
     
  6. tinyhousevt

    tinyhousevt New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2020
    My '07 I recently picked up occasionally won't crank unless I push the gearshift firmly into Park. This has something to do with the interlock but it doesn't throw a code when it happens.
     
  7. Billwill

    Billwill Full Access Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    324
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Location:
    White River, South Africa
    There may be two problems here..something stopping the engine from turning over and something causing the Red SKEES LED to light.

    Try put the Jeep into Park and Neutral at the same time...one of these interlocks may not be working.

    Fuse #40 is obviously OK as jumping the Starter Relay does turn the engine over you say.

    Have you jumpered the ASD Relay...may change something.

    The SKEES system basically has a a Chipped Key, a SKIM Module located at the top of the Steering Column with a wire loop surrounding the key entrance and finally the Key Code programmed inside the PCM.

    The SKIM Module reads the Key code off the Chipped key...much like some items at a Supermarket have a chip on it that sets off an alarm if you leave the premises without the chip being dis-abled at the pay-point.

    The SKIM Module sends the code up to the PCM.

    If the PCM is happy with the code it received it will activate the ASD relay which allows the engine to fire.

    If the PCM is not happy with the code it flashes the Red Led ON/OFF rapidly, allows the engine to turn over and fire but engine will cut off after about 10 seconds.

    If the PCM is happy with the code it energizes the ASD Relay and allows the engine to turn over BUT if it..the PCM...does not receive the confirmation that the ASD relay has in fact energized...the engine will turn over fine but will not fire and the RED LED stays lit solidly.

    Note that all of the above is definitely true on the CRDs but may be slightly different on the Gassers!

    So first I believe the fact that the engine does not turn over at all...unless the Start relay is jumpered.. should be traced.
    This could be a faulty Park Interlock, Neutral Interlock or I believe a Solenoid in the Transmission may stop the engine turning over!:confused:

    Once the engine turns over the RED LED being solidly ON can be investigated.

    Note that the Chipped Key Code is programmed into the SKIM Module at the Factory. The SKIM Module can only be programmed ONCE! You cannot re-program a SKIM Module from a Breaker Yard! You could pick up a SKIM Module, set of Chipped Keys and a PCM from a Breaker yard if they all come from the same wrecked Jeep.

    A new Virgen Skim Module can be purchased from the Dealers and they can program it once with the correct code.

    In your case if the Chipped Key, the SKIM and the PCM are all in agreement then the RED LED should not light up and all should be well.;)

    I had an issue with my Export 2002 CRD whereby the Red LED was ON solidly.
    The engine could turn over but would not fire. If I jumpered the ASD Relay the Red Led would go out, engine would start and run OK...I drove the jeep like this until I could trace the fault which was a broken wire feeding the ASD Relay.

    The Gassers may work slightly different to the Gassers...CRD the ASD Relay supplies power to the Injectors while the Gassers get power to the Injectors as well as the Sparkplugs.o_O

    Note that jumping the ASD relay with a false chipped key does not get the Jeep to run...if I knew how to hot-wire the KJ I would not post it in any forum!;)

    You can download the Jeep KJ Service Manuals here for your year....the SKEES system is explained and the Wiring Diagrams are in Section 8W....no 2007 model but try the 2006!

    First get the Jeep to turn over!;)

    I presume this is a Gasser unless it is an Export CRD?

    Do you have the Owner's Manual? May explain what that Red Led is there for!

    The 2007 KJs have a "drive by wire" Throttle Pedal much like the KK has...known to give lots of problems!

    www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
    LibertyTC likes this.
  8. William McClure

    William McClure New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020
    Thanks for the info, I will get busy on these today. I have tried to find a way to jump out the SKIM, and now I understand why I can't find it! I did not consider the fact that it would be basically hotwiring it!

    it is indeed a gasser, No manual.
     
  9. Billwill

    Billwill Full Access Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    324
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Location:
    White River, South Africa
    Unfortunately the Manuals listed do not show the 2007KJ...2006KJ will be close although wire colors may be different.

    The 2007 "drive by wire throttle" on the 2007 KJ will not be shown in the 2006 manuals obviously but I would start there...the logics may be saying that there is no point in turning over the engine if the throttle is dead!o_O

    Remove the throttle Pedal and give everything a good clean including the connector.

    If you have a basic Digital Multimeter I can guide you through the logic pages...must get the Jeep to turn over with the ignition key...one of the Interlocks may not be working;)
     
    William McClure likes this.
  10. lfhoward

    lfhoward Full Access Member

    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    325
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    William McClure likes this.
  11. William McClure

    William McClure New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020
    I do have a meter
     
  12. William McClure

    William McClure New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020
    I also have A decent autel scanner, and a usb to obd2 cable. My biggest concern is that nothing can communicate with the pcm. I am hraded out to garage now, and am going to check the accelerator pedal. also checking the crank sensor, heard that it can cause alot of problems too
     
  13. Billwill

    Billwill Full Access Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    324
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Location:
    White River, South Africa
    Let us get back to the basics before ripping the Jeep apart!

    You say you have the "original" key.
    Does this have the black plastic section at the end or is a it a single flat piece of metal. Did it ever work at all for you?o_O

    Are Fuses #28 15A and #8 40A OK?

    Make sure that Jeep is in Park or Neutral.

    With your meter on DC Volts place one lead onto engine/chassis and the other end on fuse # 28 have someone turn the key to "start".....should see +12volts on the meter.
    Remove the Starter relay and measure female pin #86 in the empty socket for +12 volts when ignition key is turned.
    Likewise place one meter lead to +12 volts ie. the battery positive terminal and the other lead to pin # 85 in the empty socket while ignition is ON...should show 12 volts if the Park/Neutral etc. interlocks are working at placing Ground on the #85 pin....this is probably not happening!:confused:

    Try these thing and get back to us!
     
    William McClure likes this.
  14. William McClure

    William McClure New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020
    it is the black original with lock/unlock, panic button. fuses are good, I am NOT getting 12v at pin 85. I was afraid it might be neutral safety switch from the beginning. It appears to be inside the trans, i put a new pan on it last week because the original was rusted to hell. replaced filter while it was apart. Do you know how i can jump that out? Then if it works I'll have to get it apart and replace it. And I want to say thank you for the guidance. Let me know what you think. Thanks again
     
  15. William McClure

    William McClure New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020
    I"ll clean it up and test it. Thanks for the help. This jeep is otherwise awesome, and I'm pretty sure I can get alot more miles out of her
     
  16. William McClure

    William McClure New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020

    Well, it's alive! went and checked input voltage to pcm one last time. It was only 7 volts so i ran a wire to battery and bang! fired up! Now I just have to trace the wire through the firewall and find out why. But I really want to say thanks for the help. I'm sure I'll have future issues, so stay safe and thanks again!
     
    lfhoward and LibertyTC like this.
  17. lfhoward

    lfhoward Full Access Member

    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    325
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    That’s great news! Potentially an easy inexpensive fix once you trace the wire. Maybe it’s frayed at the firewall or rusted through. Nice work.
     
    William McClure likes this.
  18. Billwill

    Billwill Full Access Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    324
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Location:
    White River, South Africa
    That is great news!!:):)

    If that wire is too difficult to trace ie. wound up in some long hard to get to bunch of wiring harness...replace it completely by cutting all ends off..watch the wire colors..and fit a new one then wrap it up nicely.;)

    You can get a voltage drop by a wire scraping through to ground or to some other random wire which can cause problems with the circuit that random wire feeds as well so it is sometimes better to replace the wire..and its splices...altogether!o_O
     
    William McClure likes this.
  19. William McClure

    William McClure New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2020

    does that wire run to a always hot circuit or is it an ignition on wire? if i run it to the fuse block to a hot will it be ok?
     
  20. Billwill

    Billwill Full Access Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    324
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Location:
    White River, South Africa
    What color is that wire ie. most likely it is mainly one color like Red for example. With a bit of luck the 2007 KJ may have the same colors as the 2006 KJ...I do not have the wiring diagrams for the 2007.

    Otherwise have a look at the 2006 Wiring diagram and identify the wire in question.

    I would imagine that the PCM gets its power from an always hot fused positive source but let me see what the 2006 manual shows and what fuse it goes through!;)

    On the 2006 diagram page 8W-30-2 Fuse # 24 20 A supplies Fused Battery voltage to PCM connector C1 Pin #29 via a solid Red wire through connector C105 Pin 5.

    The location of the connectors such as C105 are shown at the end of the index page and sometimes a picture of the location is shown as well.

    I am a bit handicapped here without the correct diagrams...try use the 2006 diagrams and see if they match what you physically have...otherwise members here on this site who own a 2007 KJ may be able to help you.:)

    Obviously the PCM wiring will be a bit different compared to the 2006 KJ as the throttle pedal is different but the area you are interested in should be the same.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
    William McClure likes this.