Noob question- alloy vs. steel

mercdudecbr600 · May 4, 2021

tommudd said:
Hint
Ford Exploder and Ranger wheels are 7 inches wide, 16 inch, same bolt pattern ( or most are )
and 4.5 inch backspacing
Little better than stock steels that some are promoting
Lifted a 7 inch wide wheel with 4 inches of backspacing is really good , so 4.5 is in between stock KJ and what most use lifted

Didn’t know that. Good option, I’m going to check it out!

mercdudecbr600 · May 4, 2021

tommudd said:
So what else do you have bad to say about FORGED Moabs ?
and disagree somewhat on your estimated weights

Forged Moab’s are great, would love to have them myself. But they are heavier than oem, costly, hard to find, and unless you are off-road hardcoring it, not necessary. STEel is better than stock alloy and after checking shipping weights that’s the best number I could find - do you have one to weigh? I would love to know the real number. Thanks Tom.

tommudd · May 4, 2021

If you want to weigh some wheels grab one from a POLICE Cruiser Exploder
18 inch and bet you could run over them with a dozer and not dent one
Picked one up was going to run take offs from Cruisers ( buddy does all the tires for County Sheriff and Police Cruisers and said I could have all I want, one goes bad they replace all 4 )
They must weigh as much as all 5 of a set of Moabs or maybe more

Michael Wolfe · May 5, 2021

IMO, I prefer steel. Back in the day my brother caught a little too much air in his Toyota. He landed ******* one of the front wheels which ripped the BFG off and bent the rim. After the rim was hammered back into shape, he was able to remount the same tire. Alloy doesn't tolerate damage. If it gets bent, don't bother trying to fix it.
As for the weight, my CRD tops 4,000 pounds. a couple pounds is like my 250# fat ass saving 27 grams with a lighter bicycle seat. Don't get me wrong, a lighter wheel makes more sense on your GTP racer, where less mass keeps your tires on the road over bumps. Same concept as reducing valve train weight alloys an engine to rev higher before the valves float, but I just don't see the advantage ( other than cosmetic) since I don't change tires all day. A full Gerry can weighs 40 pounds. And your saving what? Also, by lightening the wheels, are you not technically moving the center of gravity higher? Add to that the suspension lift, and larger tires. KJ's are always going to be more top heavy than a wrangler, because it has a real roof. can't really change that because it's a unit body construction. It doesn't have a removable frame underneath which supports the vehicle.

When it comes to replace my factory alloy rims, I'm going steel. And when they get bashed up, I won't cry over it.

tommudd · May 5, 2021

Same argument we had back in the early 1970s
some like steel, some don't
Back them wasn't much else
always fun to listen/read some trying to validate their point of view
Run Moabs on 2 out of 3 of mine, looking for third set
Then forged all the way

Johnny O · May 5, 2021

tommudd said:
Same argument we had back in the early 1970s
some like steel, some don't
Back them wasn't much else
always fun to listen/read some trying to validate their point of view
Run Moabs on 2 out of 3 of mine, looking for third set
Then forged all the way

Aye, I’m old school but eager to learn the opinions. With bugs, anything was better than stock. With these, I’m starting to think I’m solid in my thinking of a second set, then swap for type of use/ season.

It is sort of like trying to explain studded snow tires to Nebraskans, where they are illegal, or why snow chains don’t go on the back wheels of front wheel drive cars for that matter.

mercdudecbr600 · May 6, 2021

duderz7 said:
The stock steel wheels are great, only dow fall is the backspacing, which makes for a narrower stance, but not necessarily a bad one.

duderz7 said:
100% agree, if you can get your hands on moabs they are very nice. I've got 245/75 on mine now because I swapped them from the stock steelys but am looking forward to getting 265/70 next time.

Any chance you still have the OEM steel and could give us a few measurements? Like, backspacing and wheel weight?

Johnny O · May 6, 2021

Apparently there is a bunch of totaled Libertys at various scrap yards near me. I’m gonna go do a bit of scavenging I think, usually everything is super picked over, but won’t know till I look!

mercdudecbr600 · May 6, 2021

LabRat said:
Apparently there is a bunch of totaled Libertys at various scrap yards near me. I’m gonna go do a bit of scavenging I think, usually everything is super picked over, but won’t know till I look!

Do you think you could find out (and share) a definitive OEM steel wheel weight? From what I can tell (digitally), they should be fairly close to the OEM alloys but you just never really know until it's in your hand.

Chell · May 7, 2021

LabRat said:
Hey gang!

As I move forward with the 500 dollar wonder, I could use some advice-

This 07 has the factory alloys. I noticed most of the rims on the market are steel.

As a noob, am curious to opinion of alloy vs. steel.

I ask as this will be a mild build. Some of the upgrades I will need for it specify tire/wheel size. However as best as I can gather KJs are notorious for top heavy issues.

wondering if the trend towards steel is a product of this.

I plan a 2 to 2 1/2 suspension lift strictly for ground clearance- stock size tires. Looking at Toyos at 225/75R16.

All opinions welcome as I have no idea what I’m getting into, and 99% of the builds I’ve been reading about are overkill for my needs.

EDIT: Should add I plan to install a spare swing type rear bumper as I do need to carry 4 Jerry cans in addition to the spare. I’ve learned I will be fabricating my own bumpers as the available stuff is overkill for what I need.

Johnny O · May 7, 2021

mercdudecbr600 said:
Didn’t know that. Good option, I’m going to check it out!

Michael Wolfe said:
IMO, I prefer steel. Back in the day my brother caught a little too much air in his Toyota. He landed ******* one of the front wheels which ripped the BFG off and bent the rim. After the rim was hammered back into shape, he was able to remount the same tire. Alloy doesn't tolerate damage. If it gets bent, don't bother trying to fix it.
As for the weight, my CRD tops 4,000 pounds. a couple pounds is like my 250# fat ass saving 27 grams with a lighter bicycle seat. Don't get me wrong, a lighter wheel makes more sense on your GTP racer, where less mass keeps your tires on the road over bumps. Same concept as reducing valve train weight alloys an engine to rev higher before the valves float, but I just don't see the advantage ( other than cosmetic) since I don't change tires all day. A full Gerry can weighs 40 pounds. And your saving what? Also, by lightening the wheels, are you not technically moving the center of gravity higher? Add to that the suspension lift, and larger tires. KJ's are always going to be more top heavy than a wrangler, because it has a real roof. can't really change that because it's a unit body construction. It doesn't have a removable frame underneath which supports the vehicle.

When it comes to replace my factory alloy rims, I'm going steel. And when they get bashed up, I won't cry over it.

Weight is an issue only because my sampling gear and equipment is around 500lbs, throw in fuel, water, camping gear, me, and all the samples and specimens and it can get up around 1000lbs. Hell, only reason I’m lifting and learning about wheels is to keep from bottoming out like I’ve done in rentals in the past.

tommudd · May 7, 2021

mercdudecbr600 said:
Any chance you still have the OEM steel and could give us a few measurements? Like, backspacing and wheel weight?

backspacing is 5 inches on stock wheels, steel/alloy etc , even MOABs

mercdudecbr600 · May 8, 2021

So just FYI, from what I could tell online, Ford explorer wheels have a different (smaller) center bore. Probably no issue if you can find a hub ring to fit. They appear to have the same backspacing as liberty wheels but finding that info out has been difficult.

tommudd · May 8, 2021

mercdudecbr600 said:
So just FYI, from what I could tell online, Ford explorer wheels have a different (smaller) center bore. Probably no issue if you can find a hub ring to fit. They appear to have the same backspacing as liberty wheels but finding that info out has been difficult.

"SOME" are smaller
and backspacing is 4.5 whereas ours are 5
seems I already posted that backspacing, thought it was on this post, oh well here it is again
Don't even want to get into some Crown Vics having the same bolt pattern etc now LOL

mercdudecbr600 · May 8, 2021

I believe it’s the 3rd gen explorers that use 16” steel wheels and those have smaller bore. now that I think about it, smaller bore on the wheels = incompatible with our Jeep

mercdudecbr600 · May 18, 2021

Got an OEM 16" KJ steel wheel in hand: with hubcap weight is 26.5lbs, net offset (measured to edge of rim subtracted by the wheel lip diameter) is 5 1/4". Otherwise, the total offset is 5 3/4"

My OEM 16" KJ Alloy wheels measure 5 3/4" total offset (or 5 1/4" net offset), and weigh at 21lbs.

So there you have it! Cheapest, easiest way to upgrade to steel wheels is stock OEM wheels but they weight about 5-6lbs more per wheel. Total extra reciprocating mass is about 25# over factory alloys.

As a comparison, American Racing steel wheels 16x7 (AR767) weigh 36lbs each.

tommudd · May 18, 2021

5 inch , 5 inch

mercdudecbr600 · May 18, 2021

tommudd said:
5 inch , 5 inch

Tell that to my tape measure

mercdudecbr600 · May 28, 2021

Got a 16” steel dodge nitro wheel in hand. Same width and backspacing as oem kJ wheels. Weight with center caps around 26lbs. I reweighed the stock 16” kJ steel wheel, it’s right at 27lbs.

Johnny O · May 28, 2021

Thanks for all the interesting advice, opinions and discussion. I have managed to source a full set of 5 OEM 16 x 7 steels- refurbished and powder coated black, delivered for a total of 280$!

For my purposes, thes guys are superior to the corroded OEM alloys, which I will keep on my cheap street tires for the mall rated season!
EDIT:
For reference: all five wheels were shipped independently

Weights as follows as per shipping labels-
25.04
25.02
25.04
25.03
25.02

Noob question- alloy vs. steel

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