Alignments

mercdudecbr600 · Jan 28, 2019

Short version: replaced stock suspension on my 2002 liberty with new stock stuff, took it to get aligned and they said they couldn’t get it into spec.

Long version: New to me 2002 Jeep Liberty 4wd, but not new to wrenching on suspension. Just bought this liberty and found a few torn ball joint boots, worn bushing, etc. so I decided to replace the garbage kyb struts/shocks and every other suspension component with high quality replacement parts. For example, replaced Upper control arms with extreme terrain mevotech, pressed bushings into lower control arms, factory lower ball joints (because I already had them), rancho struts etc. same with rear. Went to get it aligned at pep boys (because they were the closest) and I get a call saying that they can’t get the camber into spec and recommended a “cam kit.” I pressed the tech and he couldn’t give me a good reason why. Then I picked it up, looked at the specs, rh toe way off etc, and stormed out only to discover that all the adjustable bolts including tie rod nuts were loose.

Have you ever had a similar experience?

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tommudd · Jan 28, 2019

mercdudecbr600 said:
Short version: replaced stock suspension on my 2002 liberty with new stock stuff, took it to get aligned and they said they couldn’t get it into spec.

Long version: New to me 2002 Jeep Liberty 4wd, but not new to wrenching on suspension. Just bought this liberty and found a few torn ball joint boots, worn bushing, etc. so I decided to replace the garbage kyb struts/shocks and every other suspension component with high quality replacement parts. For example, replaced Upper control arms with extreme terrain mevotech, pressed bushings into lower control arms, factory lower ball joints (because I already had them), rancho struts etc. same with rear. Went to get it aligned at pep boys (because they were the closest) and I get a call saying that they can’t get the camber into spec and recommended a “cam kit.” I pressed the tech and he couldn’t give me a good reason why. Then I picked it up, looked at the specs, rh toe way off etc, and stormed out only to discover that all the adjustable bolts including tie rod nuts were loose.

Have you ever had a similar experience?

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Over the years , yes have heard about the same things, mostly after someone has lifted but never stock height. There are many people who just should never touch a vehicle.
I always talk to the techs first, found one small mom and pop shop that did alignments , they had no issues with lifting KJs even when lifted over 4 inches
Now what about these " extreme terrain UCAs" NEVER saw or heard of them

mrlavalamp · Jan 28, 2019

Alignments are an issue post lift for sure. If you were stock height I couldn't see it being and issue. Since I was aligning post lift I had to call around to a bunch of places to get mine in (most places wont even consider aligning a lifted liberty).

I used a packaged lift kit (mudds econolift from JBA) for the sole purpose that folks had good results with getting it installed and aligned and keeping it that way.

My libby had cam bolts already and I believe ALL of our libertys came with them stock. I could be wrong on that though, and I am sure someone with more knowledge can correct me. So it sounds like they were trying to get a couple extra bucks from you there

And then you found everything loose? Wow, I wouldn't buy parts from them again, much less ever take another vehicle there. That is how you get people killed.

Mevotech is a new one on me, so I looked around a little.

Their website makes them look like a fancy version of dorman (or any other aftermarket parts replicator). They are using lots of adjectives like extreme, supreme, X-Factor, and on and on, and that to me screams STAY AWAY, because it is all unprovable marketing hype used to get us to buy the same parts at a higher price.

I hope I am wrong though so I dont want to write them off completely because It would be great if a new suspension parts company started making BETTER replacements instead of "as good as OE, we promise" but only for them to be crummy.

What is your impression so far?

kejobe · Jan 28, 2019

I had an '01 Ram 1500 a few years ago. Replaced all steering linkage parts with Mevotech, including the track bar. I replaced every one again 3-4 weeks later due to all failing. And they had less than 2-3000 miles on them. Was driving about 50 miles a day for work. I've never used them since. Also it was stock height and tire size.

Maybe they're better now, I don't know, but won't be spending my money to find out. Hope you have better luck with them.

As far as alignment, mine couldn't be brought into spec completely on the left. A caster issue. But it is lifted and has been in 4 accidents, 3 on the left front, prior to me buying it. And was Firestone that was doing it. Pulls to left a little but haven't tried anywhere else. Just been driving it for the past 3ish years.

Stock height I would think shouldn't be an issue.

Mangate · Jan 28, 2019

I have an OME lift from JBA with his UCA's.
I got fed up with badly done alignments and got a "Specialty Products Company 91000 FasTrax Camber/Caster Gauge for Wheels from 13" to 18" from Amazon.
I adjusted the camber and caster and just took it in for toe adjustment.
I think a lot of places can't understand how the two cam bolts adjust both camber and caster.

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mercdudecbr600 · Jan 28, 2019

They’re not as good as the jba uca but they’re much beefer than stock. The ball joint and stud is larger, the bellows a heavy gauge poly, and the joint is STIFF, and it comes with a zerk grease fitting. Plus the way the ball joint attaches is much more robust than stock.

You must be registered for see images attach

I’ve used mevotech stuff in the past and their higher level (supreme) stuff has a lifetime warranty and is well built. It’s comparable to moog problem solver stuff, basically. Which I consider in most cases to be as good if not better than stock.

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tommudd · Jan 28, 2019

mercdudecbr600 said:
They’re not as good as the jba uca but they’re much beefer than stock. The ball joint and stud is larger, the bellows a heavy gauge poly, and the joint is STIFF, and it comes with a zerk grease fitting. Plus the way the ball joint attaches is much more robust than stock.
You must be registered for see images attach

I’ve used mevotech stuff in the past and their higher level (supreme) stuff has a lifetime warranty and is well built. It’s comparable to moog problem solver stuff, basically. Which I consider in most cases to be as good if not better than stock.

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Interesting , never seen them, of course never looked as well

mercdudecbr600 · Jan 29, 2019

I think these ones are called “terrain tough”, which is unique for 4wd stuff.

This is why I love rock auto - they’ve got stuff that no one else has and you don’t have to go through a counter guy who knows less about cars than you.

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tommudd · Jan 29, 2019

mercdudecbr600 said:
I think these ones are called “terrain tough”, which is unique for 4wd stuff.

This is why I love rock auto - they’ve got stuff that no one else has and you don’t have to go through a counter guy who knows less about cars than you.

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I go local and pick my own things, already have the numbers etc don't need the counter guys help ever.
Looked around on Rock Auto a couple of times was never impressed that much.

mrlavalamp · Jan 29, 2019

I like Rockauto because their prices are dirt cheap and they have a really good selection.

The added bonus that I dont have to go deal with the autoparts stores is usually lost about 4 hours into any major work when I realize there was something I missed/forgot and now need to go buy it to get it done.

It is easier to be picky about quality parts in person though. For example, I had a toyota with the 22re in it and was going through reman starters like nobodies business. Those remans are ALWAYS bad, and turns out that the only way to get a good starter on that engine is buy on brand new and then when it craps out get a rebuild kit some guys started selling, and replace only the brushes/gears/solenoid that needed it.

The reman market was flooded with such low quality core returns and the re-manufacturer had low quality standards to the point that even though they repaired them and they "passed internal testing" to get out the door and onto the shelf, they were still badly worn. I was in a pinch financially and had to make that old pickup last, so I just kept swapping it because I had already paid for the reman and it came with a lifetime warranty. So I would have them bring me 3 or 4 of the cheap remans, I would sort through them at the counter and pick what I figured was the best one, and then the process would repeat itself about 4 months later (when I wasnt picky I would be back in a week or less). I did that for nearly 2 years.

mercdudecbr600 · Jan 29, 2019

Off topic obviously, but the only place I trust for over the counter auto parts is Napa. They do make good stuff (rebranded mevotech or Dorman etc) but are expensive especially when compared to ra, but yes in the 10 years I’ve used ra there’s been a few times where I had to run to a local auto parts store to get this or that. In the case of this Jeep I had to get an unexpected rh outer tie rod because I ruined it getting it out - off to Napa and 30 bucks later I had their non premium one in hand. When comparing premium to standard, no physical difference except bellow, but it went for $50. Same lifetime one from ra was less than 20. So with some planning you’ll save tons and get as good if not better stuff.

Back to alignment situation: this is the non lowered 02 model with new front springs, so it sits with what I perceive to be about a 1.5” left over normal libertys. So in my mind that’s not out of the question to have an alignment issue but the non sense of the cam kit just pissed me off since every liberty came with a cam kit.

On the other hand, the front cam bolt hole isn’t slotted and I read that this could cause alignment issues and rocky-road has a tool explicitly for knocking the hole out to be slotted for additional camber. Anyone used this?

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tommudd · Jan 29, 2019

mercdudecbr600 said:
Off topic obviously, but the only place I trust for over the counter auto parts is Napa. They do make good stuff (rebranded mevotech or Dorman etc) but are expensive especially when compared to ra, but yes in the 10 years I’ve used ra there’s been a few times where I had to run to a local auto parts store to get this or that. In the case of this Jeep I had to get an unexpected rh outer tie rod because I ruined it getting it out - off to Napa and 30 bucks later I had their non premium one in hand. When comparing premium to standard, no physical difference except bellow, but it went for $50. Same lifetime one from ra was less than 20. So with some planning you’ll save tons and get as good if not better stuff.

Back to alignment situation: this is the non lowered 02 model with new front springs, so it sits with what I perceive to be about a 1.5” left over normal libertys. So in my mind that’s not out of the question to have an alignment issue but the non sense of the cam kit just pissed me off since every liberty came with a cam kit.

On the other hand, the front cam bolt hole isn’t slotted and I read that this could cause alignment issues and rocky-road has a tool explicitly for knocking the hole out to be slotted for additional camber. Anyone used this?
If it was an issue many of us would of ran into it over the years. Many of us have owned KJs for 14-16 years , myself 14 years and have done over 55 KJ lifts, not counting my own . I've ran up to 4.5 inches of lift and no alignment problems, nothing wrong with KJs but there is with whoever you had to try and align it!

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You DO NOT need that tool from Rocky Road or any other tool from any company, those tools aren't even made for a KJ
And if stock suspension you do not have 1.5 inches over any other KJ
Before April 12, 2002 they were .75 inches higher of course there were issues they thought so lowered them and you can not even buy those springs etc now.
You may look high due to needing an alignment but thats all.
Find a good shop, you have the front end all screwed up right now and just needs an old fashioned alignment person that actually knows what they are doing to align it

mercdudecbr600 · Jan 29, 2019

It was high before the suspension work and high after- I’ll have to measure and update. I did eventually get an alignment at an old school suspension shop which had no problems getting the front end into alignment. But they also did it using physical measurements, not computer control (that’s how old school). That’s not necessarily wrong but it doesn’t leave me with lasting confidence that it was done correctly either.

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HoosierJeeper · Jan 29, 2019

Take it for a free alignment check at one of the chains.
Believe it or not, best gig in town for me is the dealer. Everywhere wants to do a 4 wheel alignment for $100 when the KJ's rear isn't even adjustable. The dealer will do a front end for $40, always perfect the first time.

mercdudecbr600 · Jan 29, 2019

HoosierJeeper said:
Take it for a free alignment check at one of the chains.
Believe it or not, best gig in town for me is the dealer. Everywhere wants to do a 4 wheel alignment for $100 when the KJ's rear isn't even adjustable. The dealer will do a front end for $40, always perfect the first time.

There’s a dealer close by my work, I’ll give them a shot. Good suggestion

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tommudd · Jan 29, 2019

mercdudecbr600 said:
It was high before the suspension work and high after- I’ll have to measure and update. I did eventually get an alignment at an old school suspension shop which had no problems getting the front end into alignment. But they also did it using physical measurements, not computer control (that’s how old school). That’s not necessarily wrong but it doesn’t leave me with lasting confidence that it was done correctly either.

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What are you measuring against , thinking yours is higher ??
still waiting on measurements from middle of wheel to bottom of flare drivers side front

mercdudecbr600 · Jan 29, 2019

Total height is 33” to bottom of fender flare. How does that compare?

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jeeptorino68 · Jan 29, 2019

mercdudecbr600 said:
Total height is 33” to bottom of fender flare. How does that compare?

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Measure again. Center of wheel to bottom of the flare.

tommudd · Jan 30, 2019

mercdudecbr600 said:
Total height is 33” to bottom of fender flare. How does that compare?

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Don't read much do ya ? :gr_grin::emotions34:
Sorry but if you would take the time to read what I posted go to the left front wheel, bend down, measure MIDDLE OF THE WHEEL TO BOTTOM OF THE FLARE. Very simple and takes tire height/ size of tire etc out of the measurements.

Now if that measurement is 33 , then someone has thrown a SFA under yours LOL

JasonJ · Jan 30, 2019

mercdudecbr600 said:
Total height is 33” to bottom of fender flare. How does that compare?

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That sounds like a from-the-ground measurement... place the metal tab of your tape measure in-between the two-e's of the "Jeep" branding on the center cap.. up to where the edge of the fender flare rolls over ..

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