Bad Starter?

Several times now I have had real problems getting my engine to crank as turning the key does nothing. Lights come on and so forth but no starter noise/crank. Today when it happened I went ahead and help the key in the full start position and eventually the starter turned over and started the engine. I turned the engine off, tried again, same results, nothing until I help the key in the full start position for a good 5 seconds or longer.

After I got home and the engine is all warmed up and such I tried again, this time it turned right over as expected. Turned it off, tried again, no problems.

Background: New, tested battery, not the problem. Battery cables are fine, clean and greased. Rebuilt engine which does seem to take a bit more humph to turn over than the stock.

If this was the ignition interlock problem then holding the key in the start position should not make it suddenly start after 5 seconds or longer. Ditto for the transmission Park sensor. I am family with a starter that grinds, click and generally makes various noises before they fail but I'm never seen one go bad by just acting like it can't turn until it gets enough time to decide it has gotten it's second breath and can now turn over the engine.

Starter? How much of a PITA is it to change? I have the dual fan cooling system so not a ton of working room up front.

Do you here the solenoid click?
I recently had starting problems, but could hear the solenoid click, but not pass current to the starter motor.

I just replaced the solenoid, which cost me about $22.

The starter will come out with a bit of wiggling around. The FSM says to disconnect the exhaust, but I found that removing the front prop shaft was all that was necessary.

You then remove the heat shield, held on with 3 small bolts. Disconnect the solenoid wire (plug-in) and battery cable (nut). Take the two bolts out holding the starter to the gearbox casing.

Then you need to rotate the starter so that the pinion gear is towards the front of the vehicle and also rotate axially so the solenoid is at the bottom. The whole assembly will then slide out towards the rear.

At first it seems it will never come out, but with a bit of persistence it will.

If you have access to an Ammeter, you could test to see what the draw is from the starter. I'm not sure what the factory specs are but it should be available somewhere.

If it's not starter or solenoid check here

Probably the Actuator Pin Assembly starting to break...well known problem.

The pin starts to crumble...has enough strength to turn ignition ON but struggles to overcome the spring tension of the ignition switch to go the last few degrees to start the engine. Holding it in the Start position eventually moves the ignition switch the last few degrees. The problem will probably get worse when the tip of the actuator breaks off completely.

Some things to try before replacing Actuator Pin Assembly:

Make sure all battery terminals and grounding straps are clean and tight.
Try start in Neutral instead of Park.
Swap over the Starter Relay with an identical one next to it.
Remove the Starter Relay and with Jeep in Park or Neutral and ignition turned ON jumper female pins 30 and 87 together inside the empty socket.
Provided Fuse #8 40 Amp is OK engine should turn over and start.

The above procedure bypasses the ignition switch, the Park and Neutral interlocks and the Starter Relay and generally means it is time to replace the Actuator Pin assembly or the ignition switch itself.
The ignition switch can be tested after removing it from the Actuator Pin Assembly by rotating it with a small flat screwdriver...if key is in the ignition slot and Jeep is in Park or Neutral the engine should turn over and run.

Billwill said:

Probably the Actuator Pin Assembly starting to break...well known problem.

The pin starts to crumble...has enough strength to turn ignition ON but struggles to overcome the spring tension of the ignition switch to go the last few degrees to start the engine. Holding it in the Start position eventually moves the ignition switch the last few degrees. The problem will probably get worse when the tip of the actuator breaks off completely.

Some things to try before replacing Actuator Pin Assembly:

Make sure all battery terminals and grounding straps are clean and tight.
Try start in Neutral instead of Park.
Swap over the Starter Relay with an identical one next to it.
Remove the Starter Relay and with Jeep in Park or Neutral and ignition turned ON jumper female pins 30 and 87 together inside the empty socket.
Provided Fuse #8 40 Amp is OK engine should turn over and start.

The above procedure bypasses the ignition switch, the Park and Neutral interlocks and the Starter Relay and generally means it is time to replace the Actuator Pin assembly or the ignition switch itself.
The ignition switch can be tested after removing it from the Actuator Pin Assembly by rotating it with a small flat screwdriver...if key is in the ignition slot and Jeep is in Park or Neutral the engine should turn over and run.

Click to expand...

This was my immediate thought as well. Before replacing the starter, or solenoid, do all of the checks and diagnostics mentioned here for both, as well as the check for the actuator pin. It's more common than starter failures.

Mangate said:

Do you here the solenoid click?
I recently had starting problems, but could hear the solenoid click, but not pass current to the starter motor.

I just replaced the solenoid, which cost me about $22.

The starter will come out with a bit of wiggling around. The FSM says to disconnect the exhaust, but I found that removing the front prop shaft was all that was necessary.

You then remove the heat shield, held on with 3 small bolts. Disconnect the solenoid wire (plug-in) and battery cable (nut). Take the two bolts out holding the starter to the gearbox casing.

Then you need to rotate the starter so that the pinion gear is towards the front of the vehicle and also rotate axially so the solenoid is at the bottom. The whole assembly will then slide out towards the rear.

At first it seems it will never come out, but with a bit of persistence it will.

Click to expand...

I don't recall hearing anything but normal startup beeps and fuel pump which pretty much negates it being the interlock. Of course this morning it started right up.

It's at the shop. I told them to check it out but I'd prefer to error on just replacing a 17 year old starter. I don't have the time to do it as I need to be taking a trip tonight.

Billwill said:

Probably the Actuator Pin Assembly starting to break...well known problem.

The pin starts to crumble...has enough strength to turn ignition ON but struggles to overcome the spring tension of the ignition switch to go the last few degrees to start the engine. Holding it in the Start position eventually moves the ignition switch the last few degrees. The problem will probably get worse when the tip of the actuator breaks off completely.

Some things to try before replacing Actuator Pin Assembly:

Make sure all battery terminals and grounding straps are clean and tight.
Try start in Neutral instead of Park.
Swap over the Starter Relay with an identical one next to it.
Remove the Starter Relay and with Jeep in Park or Neutral and ignition turned ON jumper female pins 30 and 87 together inside the empty socket.
Provided Fuse #8 40 Amp is OK engine should turn over and start.

The above procedure bypasses the ignition switch, the Park and Neutral interlocks and the Starter Relay and generally means it is time to replace the Actuator Pin assembly or the ignition switch itself.
The ignition switch can be tested after removing it from the Actuator Pin Assembly by rotating it with a small flat screwdriver...if key is in the ignition slot and Jeep is in Park or Neutral the engine should turn over and run.

Click to expand...

I should not hear the fuel pump if it's the actuator, pretty sure I did. Of course today it turned over as expected. It has done this a couple of times since the rebuilt engine went in, last time was a month ago. Again if it was the actuator it should be more consistent with it failing more and more, not off and on. My thoughts anyway.

Told the shop to error on the side of replacing the starter and that if they thought it was the actuator that most parts stores have the Dorman part, replacement takes less than a hour.

I just don't have the time to screw around with it before needing the Liberty for a rather long trip and I get discounted labor rates so better they just do the work and get it working.

Sort of makes me wonder if they put the old starter on the new engine and it doesn't line up as well as it did on the old one. Maybe it's just off enough to correct when things warm up and expand. I know mine has no shims but back in the old days...

When I replaced the solenoid I stripped down the starter just to check it out. It was in surprisingly good condition for a 17 year old motor. The brushes, commutator and bearings all looked good.

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Well I took it in last month and told them when I dropped it off what it was doing and that I had pretty much isolated it out to be the starter so go ahead and replace it. Called them three hours later and they said, "we couldn't reproduce the problem so we have not done any work on it."

I was PO'D!, then I got really mad. I told him I said to replace the starter, not diagnose it and he responded, "well if you get us a starter we can do that." Now how the #$% am I going to do that since you have my Jeep and I asked you when I dropped it off did you want to go across the street and get you a starter.

Well anyway I was able to get them a starter and since then, almost a month, I've not had it act up even once. Each turn of the key has resulted in the car starting.

It's too bad that the shop did not install the starter in the first place as requested.
You got good life out of the old one & Thanks for posting back it's all good now!