2004 Jeep Liberty battery drain and stalling

Hey all,

The saga continues with my '04 Liberty. Got things patched up after replacing the valve cover gaskets, and sure enough the oil leak appears to be gone, but there is a newer and bigger problem now.

I can start the car, and I can run it for a while, but it will stall out on me. When I've got it just sitting still and in park, if I apply some gas and then let it return to idle, more often than not the car will stall. If I take it out on to the road, I can usually drive for a quarter mile or so and then it will just die on me. At which point I can usually start it back up again, but eventually it will stop even that. (Super slow crank, and then nothing)

While I was under the hood, I took out the IAC valve and cleaned out the gunk (it wasn't too bad, just a little gummy). I have also replaced the PCV valve when I was rebuilding the crankcase ventilation system, as the old one was pretty nasty. I picked up an OBD2 reader, and I do not see any codes being thrown at all which I do not completely trust right now, though the CEL is not on. I will be disconnecting a non-vital but code generating item later to verify that I see the code to verify the reader/scanner.

I came across a thread about someone experiencing strange stalling issues and having it be battery related, so I took the battery in to the shop and they confirmed that it was pretty severely drained and exchanged it for me as it was still fully warranteed from when I replaced it earlier this year. They suggested checking the alternator, and I did the naive check of starting the car up and unplugging the battery - car continued to run, but when I applied some gas, the electrical systems flickered. The alternator is only a couple of years old at this point.

With no codes to go off of, I'm not sure where to start poking at things to try and troubleshoot at this point. When I do get the car out on the road, it seems to me that there is more engine noise than normal when applying gas, but it is difficult for me to gauge. One thing I know I need to do, but haven't had the time to do is check the spark plug wells and plugs themselves for oil pooling from the old leaky gaskets. (Just picked up my set of spark plug sockets.)

If anybody has any ideas here, I'd be super appreciative, even if it is a way to try and narrow down what could very easily be multiple issues contributing to the overall picture.

Willing to bet you've now got a vacuum leak if your crankcase hoses weren't properly reattached with the small plastic pieces in the middle of the hose..
Both the drivers and passengers side are two smaller lengths that are connected into one hose by what I figured were breather filters.
Make sure all the crankcase hoses are properly connected and not leaking.
Check the T-fitting you mentioned in a previous thread, as well as all hoses connecting to it..

New NGK spark plugs gapped right= start there.
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What is the alternator output voltage reading when running?

manthas said:

They suggested checking the alternator, and I did the naive check of starting the car up and unplugging the battery - car continued to run, but when I applied some gas, the electrical systems flickered.

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Ahhh...you had Jeep running and disconnected both positive & negative cables?

manthas said:

They suggested checking the alternator, and I did the naive check of starting the car up and unplugging the battery - car continued to run, but when I applied some gas, the electrical systems flickered.

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DUDE.... dont ever do that. It's an alternator, not a generator, this tests nothing except your luck. Good way to destroy all the sensitive vehicle electronics. I personally watched a guys Cavalier burn to the ground after he did this... voltage surge back to the PCM started a fire...

But I'm sensing since you used the word "naive" you now know this.

You still should test alternator voltage (with everything connected!) while the engine is running at idle and at 2000rpm. Better yet is one of those portable charging system testers at the parts store, as this will also check current output.

You may have two issues here, one charging system related, and as was mentioned, it sounds like a good sized vac leak.

:gr_grin: Love the smell of PCMs burning up in the morning!
If you put up pictures of how you "rebuilt" the crankcase hoses, likely somebody can spot the issue.

Not going to cause the slow crank issue, or the flickering electrical componenets.. but as for the idling problem and dying when you Rev it in park.. willing the issue lies somewhere mentioned in your previous thread about the vacuum fittings.

Figured I'd put up a couple pictures of my old setup for my crankcase hoses (keep them for a quick fix if something happens to the others) so that you can compare them to your own..
In the middle in the piece I mentioned before and make sure these hoses are snug and airtight..
When using heater hose instead of the oem premolded hoses, they're quite a bit more difficult to get onto the he fittings so one may have come loose or not be on the whole way to begin with..
I'd also check the T fitting that you had to replace because the old one snapped apart.. slowly blow some smoke at the fitting or have a smoking match(lit but no flame) and hold it near the fitting to watch if the smoke gets sucked in through the lines.

Have you tested the Alternator yet? That would be the first thing I would check as the battery is good.

^ Yes, but make sure that battery voltage is at least 12.5 (pref 12.65v) or better before testing. If the alternator is weak/malfunctioning, it'll cause a weakened battery state, and a weak but still good battery will skew the results of your alternator test.

Thanks to all replies here, and agreed that there are likely two issues (at least) being compounded. I secured the new vacuum lines pretty well and made sure everything was where it should be, but would not be surprised if it still isn't quite right. That said, I just got the Mopar replacement rig today so will be swapping out with official parts this weekend.

In regards to the electrical system and testing the alternator, I'll have to see how much a test kit runs for or if I can borrow one from the shop as I seriously doubt my $30 multimeter is going to be up to the task of testing it. I worry that the PCM may be bad, but without straight up replacing it, I am unsure how else to go about testing it.

I'll report back after replacing the vacuum lines and let you know how it goes. As always, you folks are the best!

Glad to hear you got Mopar replacement lines.. at least then you know they're right.
Also.. I'd imagine your $30 multimeter is plenty up to the task of testing the alternators output..
With the car running, turn your multimeter to the 20V DC and put the positive test lead from the multimeter on the positive terminal on the alternator.. touch the negative multimeter lead to the battery ground, or cars frame.. and you should get your output reading. If it's anything less than 14-14.5V might have located an issue..
I'd definitely not jump to a PCM replacement.. as 1, I don't think its your issue, and 2 you'll be looking at a chunk or change for it to be replaced and programmed to your vehicle.

There is a TSB that does away with the PCV mounted on the oil filler neck.
Simplifies hoses and kit includes a larger PCV valve.
Basically this fixes plugged pcv and the oil sludge in filler neck issues.
Link:http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f202/upgrade-your-pcv-system-tsb-25-001-08-a-59416/

manthas said:

Thanks to all replies here, and agreed that there are likely two issues (at least) being compounded. I secured the new vacuum lines pretty well and made sure everything was where it should be, but would not be surprised if it still isn't quite right. That said, I just got the Mopar replacement rig today so will be swapping out with official parts this weekend.

In regards to the electrical system and testing the alternator, I'll have to see how much a test kit runs for or if I can borrow one from the shop as I seriously doubt my $30 multimeter is going to be up to the task of testing it. I worry that the PCM may be bad, but without straight up replacing it, I am unsure how else to go about testing it.

I'll report back after replacing the vacuum lines and let you know how it goes. As always, you folks are the best!

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There should be shops around that could test it for you. I have a shop I have dealt with for years that rebuilds alternators, starters and the such and they can test them quickly. I am not sure would I would think you would get a CEL/MIL code if it was the PCM?

Wish I'd have checked this out before replacing my pcv valve and line a few weeks ago.. oh well, guess I'll wait for this one to kick it! :insane:

CalcityRenegade said:

There should be shops around that could test it for you. I have a shop I have dealt with for years that rebuilds alternators, starters and the such and they can test them quickly. I am not sure would I would think you would get a CEL/MIL code if it was the PCM?

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Even autozone will test your alternator for free. But if you've got the multimeter on hand?..

Possibly but he should have a battery light on if there were further charging issues like PCM .
I worry that the diodes could be damaged in that alt.
Definitely testing the alt is required and any alt shop could bench test it or some shops may have testing equipment like a snap on, that can test alt thru voltage, current in amps out put at specified loads, as well as diodes check.

Very much agree, and didn't mean to dispute what you're saying, just meant he could go through all the trouble when he could've just dropped some test leads on it and found low or excessive output.. if it read normal but still showed issue, then I'd have it bench tested..

GunnerSchenck said:

Very much agree, and didn't mean to dispute what you're saying, just meant he could go through all the trouble when he could've just dropped some test leads on it and found low or excessive output.. if it read normal but still showed issue, then I'd have it bench tested..

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True... but it may still have fine voltage and current output but bad diodes... the parts store tester or any bench test will check for this. Not sure a multimeter can. But since he has one, it's a simple thing to check for voltage first, then amps.