My Liberty is dead.....

This is the first time in my life a vehicle has let me down like this. Bought this 02 Jeep in 06 with 76,000 mi. on it. Been running it daily since, and liked everything but the fuel economy. Oil changes every 3,000 mi. Had a few issues, had to replace radiator once, had a failed O2 sensor, had the ball joint recall done. Overall it was a good vehicle for me. I don't put a lot of miles on my vehicles, I work just a few miles from home. Mileage was only about 108,000 when it broke my heart. I have had Jeeps for years and they have treated me well.

But a few weeks back I drove it home from work for lunch, then back to work after - no sign of any problem at all. When I went to go home after work, it didn't want to start. Finally started if I gave it quite a bit of fuel, but ran like garbage. Limped it home - only about 5 mi. Took it to mechanic near me next morning. After digging in a bit he says it looks like it dropped a valve seat, so valve in #2 can't close fully, causing all kinds of problems running. Worse yet, a quick look shows some marking on top of piston. Ballpark for repair was about 2800, if the head could be repaired and reused, and then there is no guarantee that the same thing won't happen to another cylinder after the fix. More like 4000 - 5000 if head needed replacing and there was any real damage to lower end parts.

So much for the 3.7 liter gas motor. Searching around it looks like I'm not the only victim of this motor, it's a more common failure than should ever be with a modern design.

Sorry folks, but I will not be buying any more Jeeps built around this motor! Why the heck did Jeep ever discontinued the 4.0 HO inline six!?!? Jeep sure ain't what it once was, too bad. They have lost what was a loyal supporter.

Man that *****! I hope you can find a better price for getting that fixed. Gotta note that this isn't very common and is mostly common in the early ones. Also I think limping it home did most of the damage. A piece of metal probably dropped into the cylinder and banged up the piston head. That is totally hindsight tho.

... Note to self: don't limp it home if it runs like crap all of a sudden.

It happens.. yes, common not that much considering
and the 4.0?
No they NEVER had any problems did they :happy175:

tommudd said:

It happens.. yes, common not that much considering
and the 4.0?
No they NEVER had any problems did they :happy175:

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Can't say never, but my old Cherokee ran for years, had over 200,000 on it when I "upgraded" to the liberty, with pretty much NO trouble except bad crank position sensor once and 1 worn out water pump, and it got BETTER mileage than the Liberty! If it wasn't rusting at the rocker panels I'd have kept it, and I'll bet it would still be running fine! Also had a 65 Wagoneer with a 230 Tornado six with mega mileage I did a motor rebuild on years ago. Parked it when I stopped using it. Three years latter a local kid bought it. We put in fresh fuel and a charged battery and it started right up - he drove it cross lots back to the family farm a couple miles away. Those are the Jeeps that sold me on the brand, but no more.

Sorry about your luck with the 3.7..I guess you win some and lose some. Don't let it steer you away from the Jeep brand tho. I'm on my 2nd KJ now. The only reason I sold my first is because I had over 200k on it. It still ran like the day it rolled out of the factory but I was new to the 3.7 and didn't know what to expect. But none the less I bought another one and couldn't be happier.

blue gascon said:

Sorry folks, but I will not be buying any more Jeeps built around this motor! Why the heck did Jeep ever discontinued the 4.0 HO inline six!?!? Jeep sure ain't what it once was, too bad. They have lost what was a loyal supporter.

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Yeah I am not impressed at all by the "new Jeep"
our KJ got crappy milage when you look at it compared to other
vehicles ,considering that my TJ with the 4.0 ,3 speed auto on 33's with 3.73 gears gets 15 highway and the KJ unmodified got 20

The reason the 4.0 was dropped was due to the new emission standards
the 4.0 would have been choked down to much to make good power
it makes power at 2K rpm the new V6 engines make power at 4K+
but at highway speed they do not make power so the emit less CO2
People can dog the 4.0 all they want it has a track record that speaks for its self

Just to put my 2¢ in. Are you sure it's the valve seat? I had a similar problem. On mine the lash adjuster froze and it wouldnt let the valve seat all the way. It was causing a miss real bad because it wasn't letting the valve seat on the seat. I changed the lash adjuster and the rocker arm for about 15 bucks. She runs great now. hope this helps.

blue gascon said:

Can't say never, but my old Cherokee ran for years, had over 200,000 on it when I "upgraded" to the liberty, with pretty much NO trouble except bad crank position sensor once and 1 worn out water pump, and it got BETTER mileage than the Liberty! If it wasn't rusting at the rocker panels I'd have kept it, and I'll bet it would still be running fine! Also had a 65 Wagoneer with a 230 Tornado six with mega mileage I did a motor rebuild on years ago. Parked it when I stopped using it. Three years latter a local kid bought it. We put in fresh fuel and a charged battery and it started right up - he drove it cross lots back to the family farm a couple miles away. Those are the Jeeps that sold me on the brand, but no more.

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I had three XJs that I ran well over 250,000 miles, but overall, engine, trans, mileage, ride, the KJ beats them all around
Never had any XJ get better than the KJ and even ran smaller tires on the highway with them

blue gascon said:

Sorry folks, but I will not be buying any more Jeeps built around this motor! Why the heck did Jeep ever discontinued the 4.0 HO inline six!?!? Jeep sure ain't what it once was, too bad. They have lost what was a loyal supporter.

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Well since the 3.7 is only 9 years old it's not a bad engine and generally very good,as with any mass produced item some will fail and some won't and can not be avoided no matter what anyone does.Just remember you only hear about the negitives on the internet and none of the positives.There are somewhere around 7-9 million 3.7's made so far,not just the KJ or Jeeps use them,so if you have 10,000 bad engines that is actually damn good for the amount produced.

Find it funny how when one has a major break down they always bad mouth the engine and car company.

tjkj2002 said:

Find it funny how when one has a major break down they always bad mouth the engine and car company.

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i agree 100%

tjkj2002 said:

Find it funny how when one has a major break down they always bad mouth the engine and car company.

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twack said:

i agree 100%

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I agree as well.

Sounds like you've got some ****** luck on your hands. I've had my KJ less than two years, but nothing engine wise has ever stopped me..... yet.... aside from the spark plugs when I first got it.... but anyways.

like someone above said, you win some, you loose some. good luck with the repair. Just because that particular 3.7 *****, doesn't mean Jeep as a whole and every 3.7 they've created does!

I've always been a Chevy guy but I love Jeeps for what they have lost. I find it hard to believe that 7-9 million 3.7's have been produced.:shrug: The gen1 small block Chevy only produced about 50million. That was from about 1955 thru 1997 then discontinued in 2004 and still produced in Mexico (for good reason). That included all Chevy 245 thru 400 engines and every variant of Chevrolet but Saturn. If my kj's 3.7 or CJ's 304 dies and timing is decent they will get early 70's era small block Chevy's. I guarantee it's a more reliable engine and better bolt on parts. The real problem today in my opinion is that not enough cars are built around a power train. We are forced to buy unproven and unreliable and made to fail cars/trucks and Jeeps which the auto manufactures blame on heightening EPA restrictions. How did we have reliable 50MPG variable valve timing cars in the 70's, and why do we have to select from this crap of today?

You could have the engine rebuilt and be good to go for many years ahead.
Once any vehicle reaches higher mileage, other problems could develop in powertrain and elsewhere.
Much has to do with how it was driven, maintenance and frequency of oil changes.
Unfortunately today we often find the breaking point, for those that keep the vehicle past the warranty period. This is the reason that so many used vehicles get traded in after 4 years. When shopping for used, it is best to find one with low miles/no accidents and full service records. When you bought yours at 76,000 miles did you have the previous service records for all the oil changes etc?
I paid lots more for my 2004 in 2008 that had 32,000 miles on it full service records at same dealer. The Chrysler warranty for powertrain was 7 years or only 115km or 69,000 miles. I am hoping for many good miles ahead with mine, but my powertrain warranty will be expired soon at end of 7 years (june) and I now have 37,000 miles ,then I am on my own. I too would be pissed if the engine developed the chitty bang clunk, but reality hits hard, stuff does wear and break. I would spend the $5k and put a new motor in to keep it on the road if it happened to me. I like the Kj too much.

waywardtravel said:

I've always been a Chevy guy but I love Jeeps for what they have lost. I find it hard to believe that 7-9 million 3.7's have been produced.:shrug: The gen1 small block Chevy only produced about 50million. That was from about 1955 thru 1997 then discontinued in 2004 and still produced in Mexico (for good reason). That included all Chevy 245 thru 400 engines and every variant of Chevrolet but Saturn. If my kj's 3.7 or CJ's 304 dies and timing is decent they will get early 70's era small block Chevy's. I guarantee it's a more reliable engine and better bolt on parts. The real problem today in my opinion is that not enough cars are built around a power train. We are forced to buy unproven and unreliable and made to fail cars/trucks and Jeeps which the auto manufactures blame on heightening EPA restrictions. How did we have reliable 50MPG variable valve timing cars in the 70's, and why do we have to select from this crap of today?

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Disagree with some of the above. Older motors when they would reach 80-100,000 miles they were pretty much done, todays engines will run into the 150,000-200,000 pretty easy so way different, and the unproven/ unreliable? Not even sure what you mean there. Even SBCs were unproven at one time. And fitting a SBC in a KJ will be no easy feat, SBF works better.

waywardtravel said:

I've always been a Chevy guy but I love Jeeps for what they have lost. I find it hard to believe that 7-9 million 3.7's have been produced.

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Well.... the following vehicles use/used the 3.7L....

2002-Current Jeep Liberty
2005-2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee
2006-2010 Jeep Commander
2007-Current Dodge Nitro
2004-Current Dodge Dakota
2004-2009 Dodge Durango
2002-Current Ram 1500

And I think I'm forgetting one, I dunno why, I might not be.

Now with all of those vehicles using the 3.7L, exactly how hard is it to believe that *millions* have been built?

Final decision...

Well as much as it ***** to have had a motor go tango uniform on me, this will kinda work out. First, I needed to replace the vehicle right away, as I need dependable transportation to get to work. So... a local dealer had a 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander XLS I was able to negotiate a pretty good deal on. It's gonna spoil me with the level of goodies in it, and it's FWD, 4WD, or AWD depending on what you select. I probably never would have looked at this, but I was in the market for used, I needed a car pretty quick, and it was on the lot. It really grew on me. I'm a big guy and it is a lot easier to enter and exit than lots of "full size" SUVs I looked at, with lots of cargo space. The luxury level stuff is not stuff I would have normally looked at, but I'm actually VERY impressed so far, and I'm not gonna argue with the comfort level. My off road activity now days is pretty much limited to pretty well defined trails and dirt roads - not the looney stuff I did in younger years, and this vehicle will handle it effortlessly. It actually has 3/4" MORE ground clearance than the Liberty had.

As for the Liberty, I have a friend who needs something in better shape than his current vehicle. He offered me the same cash as I would have gotten as trade in, so he's gonna get the Jeep. Best of all, he's worked out a deal with a school automotive program who wants to take it as a project - he buys parts, they don't charge labor, the kids get real world fix experience, I get some cash, everybody wins!

I know the whole "one bad apple" line of thought, but when it comes to the 3.7 I have to think - if the first apple I ever bit into was wormy I probably wouldn't be too eager to grab another! I took car of this vehicle and it died like somebody flipped a switch to the DEAD position. Anyway, it's a done deal. I am going to watch for an older Cherokee to pick up as a backup vehicle. I'll pull my plow off my old unregistered GMC pickup and put it on to do my own driveway, and if something goes with one of the other vehicles I'll have a driveable alternative.

Marlon_JB2 approves of the outcome. Mitsubishi is the only japanese vehicle I'd buy. I went to one of those tech schools and we used to get vehicles like that all the time for work. Mostly body work though... But we did engine replacements and such too.

tommudd said:

Disagree with some of the above. Older motors when they would reach 80-100,000 miles they were pretty much done, todays engines will run into the 150,000-200,000 pretty easy so way different, and the unproven/ unreliable? Not even sure what you mean there. Even SBCs were unproven at one time. And fitting a SBC in a KJ will be no easy feat, SBF works better.

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We will have to agree disagree about the 80-100,000 on a small block chevy, I'd bet tens of millions have passed 150,000 without overhaul and good compression.

Unproven/Unreliable in the sense of the SBC had been proven to be a reliable workhorse dating back to the 50's (with small issues along the way)
so in the 70's 80's and 90's they didn't burdon the consumer with the cost of designing a new engine. Chevy,GMC,Caddy,Buick,holden,etc designed a car around a given drive train making the largest aftermarket success in the automobile industry.
That's why I like Jeeps too but their drive train's weren't as good and changed more often reducing aftermarket success.
If you pick up any catalog and look for a distributor, or intake, or computer chip or programmer for the Jeep your options are limited by comparrison and much more expensive OEM or aftermarket.
The first thing I did with my first AMC 304 was replace the Ford Presolite ignition with a chevy HEI, and the Chrysler style alternator with a high output Chevrolet style 1 wire. Massive improvement adding SBC parts.

I only have around 26,000mi in my new to me KJ so I haven't thought about measuring for a SBC so I'm sure your right their but I'll never own Ford except F series trucks.

waywardtravel said:

We will have to agree disagree about the 80-100,000 on a small block chevy, I'd bet tens of millions have passed 150,000 without overhaul and good compression.

Unproven/Unreliable in the sense of the SBC had been proven to be a reliable workhorse dating back to the 50's (with small issues along the way)
so in the 70's 80's and 90's they didn't burdon the consumer with the cost of designing a new engine. Chevy,GMC,Caddy,Buick,holden,etc designed a car around a given drive train making the largest aftermarket success in the automobile industry.
That's why I like Jeeps too but their drive train's weren't as good and changed more often reducing aftermarket success.
If you pick up any catalog and look for a distributor, or intake, or computer chip or programmer for the Jeep your options are limited by comparrison and much more expensive OEM or aftermarket.
The first thing I did with my first AMC 304 was replace the Ford Presolite ignition with a chevy HEI, and the Chrysler style alternator with a high output Chevrolet style 1 wire. Massive improvement adding SBC parts.

I only have around 26,000mi in my new to me KJ so I haven't thought about measuring for a SBC so I'm sure your right their but I'll never own Ford except F series trucks.

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I know that before the Vortex heads at least 50% of all SBC's running around have at least one cracked head,ultra common issue with pre-Vortex heads.

i bet you it is not a dropped/sunken valve seat, but a broken valve spring! mike