Rear End Collisions Fires-Any stronger bumpers?

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LibertyTC

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http://www.sunjournal.com/story/223522-3/Business/Fire_a_recurrent_peril_in_Jeep_collisions/

http://forums.automotive.com/70/6228262/jeep/jeep-liberty-fuel-tank-fires/index.html

Do they make a stronger rear bumper or what can we do for better protection ??
At least I have the factory skid plate around the gas tank, and I welded the trailer hitch receiver in place, so it is always on..any ideas or after market thoughts?

Maybe a good idea to have a few extinguishers handy... like one right beside you...
 
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jnaut

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http://www.sunjournal.com/story/223522-3/Business/Fire_a_recurrent_peril_in_Jeep_collisions/

http://forums.automotive.com/70/6228262/jeep/jeep-liberty-fuel-tank-fires/index.html

Do they make a stronger rear bumper or what can we do for better protection ??
At least I have the factory skid plate around the gas tank, and I welded the trailer hitch receiver in place, so it is always on..any ideas or after market thoughts?

Maybe a good idea to have a few extinguishers handy... like one right beside you...

Here's the kicker:

In the crash that killed Mayer, authorities said Eckliff was traveling at high speed when he collided with the Jeep. Investigators are still trying to determine how fast he was going, but it is thought to be at least 65 mph, based on a witness account.

A lot of rear end collisions that end in fires (Jeep products or any other) usually involve a high-speed rear end crash. If you did a general vehicle search for accidents resulting in fires, you'll find that most are rear end collisions involing an impact at very high speed. There's probably always room for safety improvements, but if you slam into a stopped vehicle at 70mph, you're greatly increasing your chances of a fuel line or tank rupture.

Although any information about this is always good to know. Thanks for the post!
 

jnaut

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Phoenix officer Jason Schechterle might have walked away from his 100-mph rear-end collision with just two cracked ribs, but for the resulting fire, which left him with scarring from 4th degree burns.

Another case. Yes, the Crown Vic looked like they could make some safety improvements. But good god, 100mph rear-end collision?
 

J-Thompson

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there is not much you can do
the government has already been down this road with the MFG's
this is why you have a fuel tank made from HDPE ,plastic
also look at the newer Jeeps the fuel tank is in the middle
while sure it is harder to rupture in an accident if it does you are probably worse off
then if it were still in the rear
fact is you dont need to just watch the cars in front of you but also the ones behind
I do a butt load of driving and have slammed on my breaks and took the shoulder only to have the car that was tailgating me rear end the car in front of me ,for the record I was in an 2500 dodge ram when this happened
I will slow down and get over if I think that the person behind me drives like a "****** bag" and all it takes is for them to read some thing or pull out the phone and text
or shave or make up
I have seen guys shaving with shave cream a razor and a cup of water
I have seen people reading the paper

Do you need to beef up your car for protection? NO
do you need to learn how to spot poor drivers? YES
I really think the roads would be safer if the drivers who drive unsafe were removed
like the ones with no head lights in the rain ,good start
 

JeepJeepster

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Everything you read on the internet is correct, right? :rolleyes:

Anytime you have gas in a vehicle youre in danger if you get in a wreck. Simply put, the liberty has no problems with catching on fire when its involved in a wreck. Most people just look for a reason to sue someone.

Safest thing is a good skid plate and a hitch.

And about that one link with the woman saying her daughter was killed. There was a post like that floating around for awhile and most came to the conclusion is was spam. Did you notice she said the gas tank was located behind the bumper?? :rolleyes::confused:
 

jnaut

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I do a butt load of driving and have slammed on my breaks and took the shoulder only to have the car that was tailgating me rear end the car in front of me ,for the record I was in an 2500 dodge ram when this happened
I will slow down and get over if I think that the person behind me drives like a "****** bag" and all it takes is for them to read some thing or pull out the phone and text

You've touched on a controversial subject, j-thompson, but you hit the nail on the head. You can actually avoid being rear-ended, despite popular theory.

Here's my theory on tailgating:

When you tailgate someone, you assume that everyone behind you is as good, or better a driver than you are.

Why is this?

Because when you tailgate, you have a given amount of time to notice a change in conditions and stop appropriately. You have to assume that people behind you can respond to the same conditions as quickly or faster than you did. How many of you trust that the driver behind you is better?

I assume I'm the best driver on the road. So I make sure that I can react with plenty of time and room, so that I can then judge the person behind me and give HIM the appropriate amount of time to wake up and react. Also, if you leave room, and you see the driver behind you doesn't seem to be stopping, you can (conditions allowing) pull into a shoulder or another lane and let him hit the person in front of you. Or at least give him one more car length to wake up and adjust.
 

tjkj2002

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http://www.sunjournal.com/story/223522-3/Business/Fire_a_recurrent_peril_in_Jeep_collisions/

http://forums.automotive.com/70/6228262/jeep/jeep-liberty-fuel-tank-fires/index.html

Do they make a stronger rear bumper or what can we do for better protection ??
At least I have the factory skid plate around the gas tank, and I welded the trailer hitch receiver in place, so it is always on..any ideas or after market thoughts?

Maybe a good idea to have a few extinguishers handy... like one right beside you...
Boy you have not one good thing to say about a Liberty do you?

That stupid story has been posted before and pretty much is a made up tail,ANY,and I mean ANY vehcile can burst into flames no matter where the gas tank is located so it's a mute point anyway.

If you want a stronger rear bumber how about doing some research first,you'd found this.................
You must be registered for see images attach

Almost had a 3 series bimmer the other day,damn 1500lbs of armor:D.
 

Dave

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It's not just jeeps, but all vehicles with rear gas tanks in high speed rear end collisions. That's why the Gov't has required gas tanks to be mounted towards the center of vehicles now. The police model crown Vic's had a problem too (as noted above) and Ford subsequently recalled them and installed an extra support bracket for the gas tank. But when you get rearended at 100 mph (as also noted above) any gas tank in any vehicle can rupture and at that speed there will be sparks.

I was rear ended once in a gf's car and had around $5,500 in damage to the rear and the gas tank was in the rear too and it was just filled. I was stopped in traffic and was hit hard at about 50 mph or so. No explosion, no gas leaking, but a lot of damage. I was stuck in 3 lanes of traffic on an interstate.

I don't worry about it. I mean, worry about something that might not happen. I do always glance in the rearview and side mirrors while driving and try to stay alert as much as possible. I do mostly interstate driving and try to keep tabs on all vehicles anywhere near me at all times.

I do also have a fire extinguisher in the jeep, but they are really for just small fires if you can catch it as it starts.

Mostly, all you can do is pay attention and drive safe.

Dave
 

LibertyTC

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welded reciever end

you welded your rear hitch to the Jeep?!?!

This Liberty is new to me, and had to get the boat pulled to the lake.
Have square removeable dealer hitch, Anyways where the square piece with the ball attaches to the frame hitch, there was some slack in there was sliding back and forth a bit giving big clunks, so welded that to the hitch in the front, to stop the movement. So it is now not removable but it is quiet.
Wow Tj must be in a bad mood or something.
Anyways I was once in a rear ender on the highway and this is the reason for this posting as I like the Jeep, but absolutely hate plastic bumpers on any vehicle especially after finding the exploding story. Did put a Setina PB 400 push bar on the front for some protection, now it is on to the rear.
I did try to research a rear bumper, but on google did not come up with much in a half hour as I am in Canada, and we do not have decent websites with shops/products here.
So if anyone could provide me with a link that would offer some additional protection as a rear bumper guard, or a reasonably priced replacement bumper would be gratefully appreciated.
 

LibertyOrDeath

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A fire extinguisher is merely to allow you to rescue people or a very valuable item from your vehicle. Don't bother using it to save your vehicle, unless you catch the fire right when it starts, you will fail most of the time.
 

jnaut

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Anyways I was once in a rear ender on the highway and this is the reason for this posting as I like the Jeep, but absolutely hate plastic bumpers on any vehicle especially after finding the exploding story.

Things aren't always what they seem. Plastic bumpers can absorb energy on an impact. Fact: Cars have more plastic on them today than in any time in history. Fact: Cars in general are safer than ever before in any time in history.

They actually design cars to crumple in accidents. A car that crumples absorbs the energy of an impact, reducing injury to passengers.

For instance, I rear ended (yes, I admit it) a lady on a dark, rainy road. She was about 75 yards ahead of me in a dedicated (yield) right turn lane in an intersection under heavy construction. As I approached the intersection, my eyes moved left to see if there were any cars coming through. There was one truck, moving very slowly over the metal plates and I calculated it would take him far longer to get thru the intersection than it would for me to get through it. I started to accelerate and looked forward to see the woman still sitting (stopped) at the turn lane. She had plenty of time to stop, look, yield, and move through, but she made the choice not to. My mistake is I assumed she would have gone through. Long story short, I slammed on the brakes, but the road was wet on old stock tires, I slid into her at a few miles per hour. We got out, checked the damage. My plastic(!) bumper actually collapsed and bounced back into shape. No damage on either vehicle.

Had the Libby had one of those old 1972 metal bumpers, there would have been damage, no doubt.

Also, one last note on the crown vics. While it was probably a prudent move to redesign the Vic, who was having all the problems with them: cops. Guess what cops do? They stop on freeways with their rear-ends hanging out while clueless drivers **** by at 70mph.

Cops are always getting rear ended. This merely makes them more vulnerable to these types of accidents. If my job were to stop on the freeway three times an hour in my libby, I might be concerned about an aft gas tank.
 

LibertyTC

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Good slow speed write up !

Good Argument/Write Up.
The use of the plastics and foam definitely help to prevent damage at lower speeds. In your case both vehicle got away without any serious damage and with a steel bumper it would have been different.
As speed increases the foam bumper will no longer uncompress and the damage continues forward into other components.
The dynamics changes quite a bit as speed increases> Lets put it this way I would rather have additional strength in the bumpers, and not have to use them, rather than find out what happens when I don't have them. eg: Jeep Arb Front bumper hits Honda, who get to drive away? Even though I Put the PB-400 up front I don't think that would change the air bag or crumple zone, but would prevent some damage to the front of the Liberty.
SO is it a good idea to look for for a rear bumper guard, probably not a bad idea.
 
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Ry' N Jen

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Good Argument/Write Up.
The use of the plastics and foam definitely help to prevent damage at lower speeds. In your case both vehicle got away without any serious damage and with a steel bumper it would have been different.
As speed increases the foam bumper will no longer uncompress and the damage continues forward into other components.
The dynamics changes quite a bit as speed increases> Lets put it this way I would rather have additional strength in the bumpers, and not have to use them, rather than find out what happens when I don't have them. eg: Jeep Arb Front bumper hits Honda, who get to drive away? Even though I Put the PB-400 up front I don't think that would change the air bag or crumple zone, but would prevent some damage to the front of the Liberty.
SO is it a good idea to look for for a rear bumper guard, probably not a bad idea.

Good day day,

First thing I'm gonna say is... How long before this thread gets locked. :D

I think you are a little too paranoid about getting rear ended! I can understand though as I live in Richmond, B.C., and I too have been smoked a few times by those excellent drivers from the Far East. However, you are still in a fairly large vehicle which is alot safer than a Chevy Aveo!
Then there is the "Stronger rear bumper" issue. Sure, up to certain speeds it will defiantly help in a rear end collision, but, should a vehicle hit you at a hight rate of speed 100km and up, then that bumper will just be driven further into the back of your vehicle.
And if you had something like a Setina product for the rear it would more than likely concentrate the impact onto a smaller surface area creating a more focused blow and as a result driving it and the mounting surface behind it more directly into the gas tank.
Incidentally, the products Setina manufactures are for law enforcement vehicles. They are mainly used as a push bar to aid in getting vehicles off to the side of the road. Of course we all know however that those "push bars" are used to preform the infamous P.I.T. maneuver (Precision Immobilization Technique) and they take quite a hit after doing so and the police vehicle also tends to receive damage to the front and side fenders.
Having several friends and a brother-in-law who is now retired from the RCMP, I've seen many photographs of what happens to their cruisers when things get nasty. As well as other vehicles involved in crashes.

If you feel this venerable to a rear end collision... Buy a Bradly armored vehicle, paint it Acid yellow and safety orange and strap a couple of hundred flashing strobe lights to it.
Then, if you get hit at Mach 9 , the vehicle won't receive any real damage at all.
Mind you, you on the other hand will be like the contents of a raw egg that has been violently shaken! :D

Your only other recourse would be to fit a foam filled fuel cell such as those made by ATL for example.

(Cheers)

Ryan
 

Cableguy

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Good day day...

(Cheers)

Ryan

I concur. A steel bumper isn't going to help you if you get rear-ended at 100mph. All that will add up to is 200-400 lbs of steel flying forward. :rolleyes: It may help avoid damage to your vehicle in a slow speed impact (and on the trail of course!), but you can't worry about everything all the time. Just drive carefully and relax a little! :cool:

And yes, i remember that "the jeep blew up and killed my whole family" spam/lawsuit crap. It was pretty amusing to watch. ;)
 

jnaut

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Good day day,

First thing I'm gonna say is... How long before this thread gets locked. :D

Oh, c'mon now, no one's fighting, we're having what I would consider a very civil discussion. Kick.gif

Having several friends and a brother-in-law who is now retired from the RCMP, I've seen many photographs of what happens to their cruisers when things get nasty.

What the? I thought you guys didn't have any crime in Canada?

Your only other recourse would be to fit a foam filled fuel cell such as those made by ATL for example.

The way I see it, when you get hit at 100mph (not 100kph, but MPH!) that's like getting struck by a meteor. At that speed, the car striking you could rupture its fuel tank, and literally launch atomized gasoline all over the crash scene.

However, none of this is to say that engineers shouldn't try to improve car safety.
 

jnaut

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A fire extinguisher is merely to allow you to rescue people or a very valuable item from your vehicle. Don't bother using it to save your vehicle, unless you catch the fire right when it starts, you will fail most of the time.

Word.

Fire extinguishers do two things in an off-road vehicle.

1. They look cool. Especially those pimpin chrome ones!
2. They help keep back a fire, giving you enough time to escape or get your dog out.

It's arguable they might put out a fire started in the upholstery by your unemployed uncle who drops his cigarette on the back seat. But if you have a real car fire-- something started in the engine or fuel lines, your teensy fire extinguisher on the passenger pillar is going to zippo.

Anecdote: A friend of mine got a knock on his door by his neighbor who said "uhh, I think my car's on fire, do you have an extinguisher?" My friend happened to have one of those huge industrial sized extinguishers that are larger than a small child. He headed out with it, saw the fire was under the engine block. He aimed the flexible hose of the extinguisher straight on the source of the fire, and emptied the entire thing onto the fire. He said it didn't even slow it down. Long story short, they called the fire department who got there as the entire car became engulfed, put the fire out and left the smoldering heap on the street. Hours later that night it flared back up again.

Sometimes people don't realize the sheer heat that gets built up in a real car fire. I too plan to put an extinguisher in my Jeep. Cause hey, I think it looks cool. And who knows, I may drive by a fire that I can actually put out one day. But unless my daugher builds a small bonfire on the back seat, I don't actually expect to put out a fire in my engine. Like Midnight says above, if you catch it riiiight when it starts, you got a shot. And hey, it won't hurt to have one, but it might hurt not to, so I'll carry one.
 

Khaki-KJ

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Almost had a 3 series bimmer the other day,damn 1500lbs of armor:D.
You may not have caused any body damage to the BMW but the BMWs drivers body may have caused some damage to the seats, and those are expensive to clean. :D Still a good day's work. :cool:
 
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Khaki-KJ

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This Liberty is new to me, and had to get the boat pulled to the lake.
Have square removeable dealer hitch, Anyways where the square piece with the ball attaches to the frame hitch, there was some slack in there was sliding back and forth a bit giving big clunks, so welded that to the hitch in the front, to stop the movement. So it is now not removable but it is quiet.
Wow Tj must be in a bad mood or something.
Anyways I was once in a rear ender on the highway and this is the reason for this posting as I like the Jeep, but absolutely hate plastic bumpers on any vehicle especially after finding the exploding story. Did put a Setina PB 400 push bar on the front for some protection, now it is on to the rear.
I did try to research a rear bumper, but on google did not come up with much in a half hour as I am in Canada, and we do not have decent websites with shops/products here.
So if anyone could provide me with a link that would offer some additional protection as a rear bumper guard, or a reasonably priced replacement bumper would be gratefully appreciated.

Go to RockLizard, they make a great rear bumper
http://www.rocklizardfabrications.com/Liberty_komodo_bumper.htm
 

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