Lock front or rear

I was thinking of locking the front first, via co2 arb air locker. I have a 25lb aluminum tank. My thought is I'd rather "pull" myself out/up/ etc then push. Much like front wheel drive vehicles drive better in snow then just a rear wheel drive. Is this smart or just dumb thinking? Anyone done/thought of this?

thanks
absolute

I would do the rear before i did the front. Best option is to do both.

I thought of it too. Mine has a LSD in the back already. ***** but better than nothing. So I thought about getting a airlocker in the front first.

I think there is something detrimental about that though. Some of those systems are set up so the back has to be locked before the front can be. There must be a reason. The new rubicons are like that. The back must be locked for the front to be and it automatically kicks out when you go over 10 mph(safety feature for stupid people).

I heard it is harder to steer with the front locked as well.

If and when I get an air locker I am going to do both at the same time.

Be careful! The front diff housing is not strong at all...

I know, ordered the reiforcement collar through the group buy on Lost

im gonna go with a collar too

Screw the collar get some of these babies mounted

AbsoluteRenegade said:

im gonna go with a collar too

Click to expand...

It will reduce the problem of stress but if you ride hard it may not eliminate any front diff cracking. I myself do not ride hard off-road, let alone do I ever get a chance to go. However, it is there for anytime I hit the silly Michigan trails, inclines, declines, bumps, vibrations, etc...




**EDIT**
BTW, the collar is not completely tightened in the picture above. There were some folks where were indicating on LOST that the collar will not close completely. I had to adjust the collars position which eliminated the larger gap (there is still a small gap but its barely visible). I'm assuming the gap allows for some play in the collor or some form of stress reliever...But the gap should not be as large as the one you see in the picture.

There has to be some gap or it wouldn't tighten enough to stay put. Especially since it's just aluminum. Is it only split on one side? Care to measure the OD and width of it so I could make my own?

Just remember that the collar is a untested modification.In MOAB, All J's owner's father(I believe) broke the front diff in there KJ,from the poeple standing around when it happenned said the diff case expanded/twisted as so the ring and pinion was skipping on each other(clik,clik,clik sound) than bang the case broke apart.Sure the area around the pinion broke off but the crack started farther up where the carrier bearings mold into the diff case.It also looked the same as all the other diffs that have broken,that's why I sold my collar without ever putting it on.Plus if you over tighten that collar you can put extra stress on the pinion bearings causing early failure if you distort the front housing area.Just something to think about.

Here is a really cool link I found on installing an ARB in a dana 44.

If you wondered what was involved and about a do it yourselfer this may give you more info about making a decision as to play or pay.


http://www.stu-offroad.com/axle/arb/arb-1.htm

It starts off with the switch and compessor install which looks to be fairly strait forward and then goes into the diff work.

After reviewing this I think I will have mine done by a shop as I do not have the proper tools or the mechanical skill for a job of this magnatude.

Troy,

That doesn't make me feel too good about that collar. I haven't put it on yet though.

steepcreekfreak said:

... I think there is something detrimental about that though. Some of those systems are set up so the back has to be locked before the front can be. There must be a reason. The new rubicons are like that. The back must be locked for the front to be and it automatically kicks out when you go over 10 mph(safety feature for stupid people).

Click to expand...

This may be the reason the rear has to be locked first in the JK.

"When diff locks are fitted to both the front and rear axles it is
imperative that the rear lock is operated first. A vehicle moving
over slippery ground with a locked front axle and an unlocked rear
diff will want to spin out and may become very difficult to control."
-- taken from: 'A 4-Wheel Drive in Southern Africa'

Good find, icarl. I wonder if this would apply equally to an auto locker.

I've been thinking of putting an Aussie in the front of my Ranger and I've got an LSD in the rear, but thinking of leaving it and replacing later. I'm thinking I'd be better off with a locker/LSD than open/locker.

What do you think?

KJ02Ltd said:

Good find, icarl. I wonder if this would apply equally to an auto locker.

I've been thinking of putting an Aussie in the front of my Ranger and I've got an in the rear, but thinking of leaving it and replacing later. I'm thinking I'd be better off with a locker/LSD than open/locker.

What do you think?

Click to expand...

I'm no expert but I heard that a locker is only necessary for extreme off-roading like rock crawling. I would not put an automatic locker up front as it could cause handling problems. A selectable locker would be best as you can turn it off when you want to turn. Even a limited-slip up front can cause handling issues. The stability of a limited slip in the rear and locker in the front would probably depend on how much the rear slips. If it slips a lot then you may experience similar (but not as bad?) control problems to the locker up front and open diff in the rear scenario.

"In most cases limited slip differentials are fitted on the rear axle
only. This is usually advisable, for when fitted on both front and
rear axles, some limited slip differentials can alter the vehicle’s
handling characteristics and even cause instability at speed.
Modern examples are the Hydratrak which
incorporates a cartridge type fluid coupling which
smoothly increases torque transfer to the wheel
with slower rotation, and the Detroit Truetrac,
which is claimed by the manufacturer to be
suitable for fitting to the front axle
of a 4x4 without causing the handling
problems previously mentioned."
- Taken from 'A 4-Wheel Drive in Southern Africa'

"Automatic diff locks are a disadvantage in soft sand when the
vehicle is turned, as the locking rear axle tends to cause drag on the outside wheel hampering progress. Contrary to what the
manufacturers claim, I do not advise fitting an auto diff lock to a
front axle as it can cause severe handling difficulties on slippery
surfaces. Because they cannot be manually disengaged, when
steering becomes difficult, they are unsuited to front axles."
- Taken from 'A 4-Wheel Drive in Southern Africa'

"Don’t fall into the trap and believe that a four-wheel drive vehicle
must have an axle diff lock before it will be effective off-road. It is
true that there are some obstacles that only vehicles with a lockable
diff will negotiate with ease, but these can in so many cases
be overcome with driving skill. However, if you intend tackling the
very toughest off-road conditions then axle differential locks are
essential. An axle diff lock is a ‘nice to have’ and not a ‘must have’
item.
The ultimate configuration is diff locks on the front and back but
it is essential that the back diff is locked before the front. The best
axle diff locks are the manually operated type and are a desirable
addition to any vehicle expected to traverse very difficult terrain."
- Taken from 'A 4-Wheel Drive in Southern Africa'

I have a TrueTrac up front with no problems with driveability.The only thing that was noticeable was the steering wheel returns to center faster,I don't even notice it at all anymore and no funning tire wear either.The TT was designed for front appilications.

I have a locker and I wouldnt change it for anything. Nothing beats a good mechanical locker offroad and you do not need to be a ********* rocker climber to need one. One of my rear tires comes off the ground many times offroad weather Im on rocks or not..

Tokyojoe1965 said:

Troy,

That doesn't make me feel too good about that collar. I haven't put it on yet though.

Click to expand...

Like I said it just is unproven yet.It may or may not help.Since I'm doing a SFA swap I no longer needed and I didn't know first hand account of how the diff explodes till I was in MOAB.

jeepjeepster said:

I have a locker and I wouldnt change it for anything. Nothing beats a good mechanical locker offroad and you do not need to be a ********* rocker climber to need one. One of my rear tires comes off the ground many times offroad weather Im on rocks or not..

Click to expand...

No one disputes the value of a good locker. It's just that for many driving applications one can get bye without it just by using a little driving skill. What applications do you find you need your locker for? ie. what terrain.

tjkj2002 said:

Just remember that the collar is a untested modification.In MOAB, All J's owner's father(I believe) broke the front diff in there KJ,from the poeple standing around when it happenned said the diff case expanded/twisted as so the ring and pinion was skipping on each other(clik,clik,clik sound) than bang the case broke apart.Sure the area around the pinion broke off but the crack started farther up where the carrier bearings mold into the diff case.It also looked the same as all the other diffs that have broken,that's why I sold my collar without ever putting it on.Plus if you over tighten that collar you can put extra stress on the pinion bearings causing early failure if you distort the front housing area.Just something to think about.

Click to expand...

The collar will have a slight gap for the very reason of over tightening, which if overtightened will stress the collar itself since its aluminum. It is an untested modification, but I don't want to be the one to test it out