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Disco95

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Hey guys, I keep seeing you all mentioning stuff about "1.5" lift according to Australian laws"
As an Aussie, I don't understand what you are all on about. Is there a law saying we can't export more than a 1.5" lift? We certaimly lift higher than that over here. My last vehicle was a Land Rover Disvvovery 1 with a 2" spring lift and an extra 3" on the tyre size. It's not uncommon to see 7" lifted Nissan, Toyota and Jeeps over here (they have to to keep up with the Rovers) please enlighten me as to what you guys mean.

Sean
 

rjkj2005

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Hey guys, I keep seeing you all mentioning stuff about "1.5" lift according to Australian laws"
As an Aussie, I don't understand what you are all on about. Is there a law saying we can't export more than a 1.5" lift? We certaimly lift higher than that over here. My last vehicle was a Land Rover Disvvovery 1 with a 2" spring lift and an extra 3" on the tyre size. It's not uncommon to see 7" lifted Nissan, Toyota and Jeeps over here (they have to to keep up with the Rovers) please enlighten me as to what you guys mean.

Sean
From what I know talking to old man emu Rep. They advertise their springs at 1.5 inches of lift for insurance reasons. Supposably above 1.5 inches there are some liability issues with Australian insurance company's.

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Disco95

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First ive heard of that. I know that there has been talk of laws keeping lifts down, but 1.5" is ridiculousl.
The standard here is a 2" spring lift, bigger tyres followed by a 2" body lift, then bigger tyres again. From there engineers need to get involved to keep things legal. If its legal, it's covered by insurance. (Depending on policy) just the same as, if the track is marked on a map, you are covered.again varies with polocies, but that is the standard..
Sean.
 

tjkj2002

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Somewhere between being sane and insane!
First ive heard of that. I know that there has been talk of laws keeping lifts down, but 1.5" is ridiculousl.
The standard here is a 2" spring lift, bigger tyres followed by a 2" body lift, then bigger tyres again. From there engineers need to get involved to keep things legal. If its legal, it's covered by insurance. (Depending on policy) just the same as, if the track is marked on a map, you are covered.again varies with polocies, but that is the standard..
Sean.

"Legal" is not a set thing.

My KJ was 100% legal in Colorado but Illegal in say Missouri.

Just because you can buy it does not make it legal every where or at all.Many things are legally sold that are illegal to actually use on public roads.Wheel spacers and HID retrofit kits are the 2 common ones.
 

Disco95

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Completely agree tjkj2002, and the laws do vary between the states here, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that more tnan 1.5" of lift is legal here without going to an engineer. As to insurance, I had no problems making a claim on above mentioned Discovery after a mishap in the bush caused some fairly significant panel damage, insurer was aware of my lift and larger tyres as those items were noted on the policy as increasing the value of the vehicle.They want to change the laws to only allow a maximum of 2" of lift in fact, there g as been much debate regarding this topic in Oz. Also if you gain engineering certification there is not much you can't do.
 

LibertyTC

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Keep in mind its about safety, and single vehicle or accident impact/ roll over concerns.
Longer wheel base with lift & larger tires are one thing, short wheel base lifted can = trouble in even a quick hazard and avoid or slalom situations.

Link: A Jeep rollover proves hard to understand | Autoweek

How bad can it be for the liberty, when many of us are now really 3- 4 inch lifted?
 
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tommudd

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Been that way for years, everyone for example knows that OME 927/948 combo nets you 2.5 inches over new stock height , but can only be advertised as 1.5 inches.
Believe it or not, been told to me many times by OME/ARB reps over the years. But like here, there are laws, but some never pay any attention to them
 

profdlp

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...there are laws, but some never pay any attention to them

I am technically in violation down here in VA (company meeting) due to not having my offroad lights covered. That dumb law is why I waited until I was back in Ohio to do anything. The only ones I could find that came with covers were the $$$ kind. I passed through PA and MD on the way; no idea if I was a lawbreaker there as well.

Kind of wish I had gone ahead and installed a kill switch under the hood like I had planned. At least then a cop might show me leniency if I pointed out that it was impossible for me to turn them on without stopping and lifting the hood.
 

tommudd

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I am technically in violation down here in VA (company meeting) due to not having my offroad lights covered. That dumb law is why I waited until I was back in Ohio to do anything. The only ones I could find that came with covers were the $$$ kind. I passed through PA and MD on the way; no idea if I was a lawbreaker there as well.

Kind of wish I had gone ahead and installed a kill switch under the hood like I had planned. At least then a cop might show me leniency if I pointed out that it was impossible for me to turn them on without stopping and lifting the hood.

When I had the Hellas mounted to the firdt RL roof rack I never ran covers and was in all of those states , never even thought about it until I was back home:happy175:
 

Disco95

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Been that way for years, everyone for example knows that OME 927/948 combo nets you 2.5 inches over new stock height , but can only be advertised as 1.5 inches.
Believe it or not, been told to me many times by OME/ARB reps over the years. But like here, there are laws, but some never pay any attention to them

G'day Tom, I would say you have been misinformed.

Link to ome suspension selector where you will find advertised 50mm (1.98 inch) lift.
Old Man Emu Suspension Selector - ARB Old Man Emu 4X4 SuspensionARB Old Man Emu 4X4 Suspension

Arb link showing same suspension selector via ARB website .
https://www.arb.com.au/products/old-man-emu-4x4-suspension/suspension-selector/

Link from Murchison off road advertising 2.5 - 2.75 inch lift.
http://www.murchisonproducts.com.au/shop/kj-cherokee-25”-275-suspension-system
 

tommudd

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G'day Tom, I would say you have been misinformed.

Link to ome suspension selector where you will find advertised 50mm (1.98 inch) lift.
Old Man Emu Suspension Selector - ARB Old Man Emu 4X4 SuspensionARB Old Man Emu 4X4 Suspension

Arb link showing same suspension selector via ARB website .
https://www.arb.com.au/products/old-man-emu-4x4-suspension/suspension-selector/

Link from Murchison off road advertising 2.5 - 2.75 inch lift.
http://www.murchisonproducts.com.au/shop/kj-cherokee-25”-275-suspension-system


No not at all misinformed No matter what you post and Yes I know Stu quite well, knew him before he even opened his business
Keep on trying though
Once again, you are mixing what people sell with what some sell two completely different things
 

Disco95

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Tom, you said that in Australia lift kits are advertised as 1.5" as more than that is not legal. The links i have shown you clearly prove that it is not the case. Those lifts are advertised and legally sold as being over 1.5 inches.
OME in Australia and ARB in Australia clearly advertise lifts over 1.5 inches. Tell me ahain how this is untrue, and show me the proof. I have shown you proof, i have shown the Australian ads, all I you h ave said is "this guy told me"
 

Disco95

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Here you go Tom, the other states differ slightly, but this is a true representation of the facts. Perhaps you should show your reps these facts from the Australian government. NSW lift regulations,

Suspension and ride height Gazettal November 2016 10 (35 pages)
3.0 Categories of modifications
3.1 Changes that do not require assessing or certification
1 Not classed as modifications:
The following are not considered to be modifications and do NOT require assessing or
certification:
a. Replacement of parts or components by identical or equivalent parts or components.
b. Replacement of parts or components with parts or components of equivalent functional
performance.
c. Optional parts or components as prescribed by the vehicle’s manufacturer.
2 Minor modifications:
In addition to the above, the following are not considered to be significant modifications and
do NOT require assessing or certification:
a. Except where specified below, modifications to the suspension that does not increase
or decrease the vehicle’s ride height by more than 50mm.
b. Changes in the diameter of the wheel and tyre combination of up to +/- 7% of the
largest size specified by the vehicle manufacturer.
c. Modifications to the ride height up to 75mm that incorporate a maximum change in the
suspension of 50mm, and/or an increase in the diameter of the wheel and tyre
combination of up to 50mm.
d. Restoring a vehicle to the original trim height as established by its manufacturer to
compensate –
i. for sag due to normal wear-and-tear; or
ii. as the result of permanent loading from fixed items, such as a bull bar, a winch or
a second spare wheel.
e. Changes in the vehicles ride height by up to 50mm by replacing the rear coil springs
with air springs fitted to un-modified, original mounting points when used with slow
speed air controls in accordance with Appendix B.6.1a.
f. Changes in the vehicles ride height by up to 50mm by replacing the rear shock
absorber assemblies with air adjustment, fitted to un-modified, original mounting points,
when used with slow speed air controls in accordance with Appendix B.6.1a.
g. Supplementary air springs that assist the original springs, and are fitted without other
modifications, such as holes drilled in structural sections of a chassis.
Note: Items d, e and f above should comply with section LS 1.1 & 2.7 of VSB 14 and associated
ADR’s, including ensuring that the spring and damping systems are suitable for the category of
vehicle.
The allowances provided above for modifications to ride height before certification is required
exceed those given in VSB 14 and the previous requirements in NSW stipulated in Code of
Practice for Light Vehicle Modifications. VSB 14 requires that any change in ride height
above 50mm must be certified regardless how it is achieved, and includes aggregate
increases from suspension lifts and changes to the wheel and tyre combination. VSB 14 also
requires that available suspension travel must remain at least equivalent to two thirds of the
original. Similarly, the NSW Code limited changes to ride height to one third of the working
travel of the suspension travel from kerb mass height to metal to bump or rebound positions
as specified by the manufacturer.
The 50mm limit before certification is required is consistent with the Australasian New Car
Assessment Program’s variants policy, which states that an ANCAP safety rating given to a
vehicle cannot apply to a variant of the same model if its ride height is more than 50mm


3.2 Modifications that require assessing and certification
The significant modifications below require a vehicle to be assessed. The vehicle may be
subject to a single modification or a combination of modifications. If the vehicle has been
subject to a number of modifications, the assessment must ensure that the cumulative effect
of all the modifications are considered.
a. A change in the vehicle’s suspension –
i. that increases the vehicle’s ride height between 50mm and 125mm; or
ii. of up to 125mm that combined with an increase in the diameter of the wheel and
tyre combination of up to 50mm increases the vehicle’s ride height between
75mm and 150mm.
b. Except for items under (e), (f) and (g) above, installation of a variable ride height
system.
c. Any increase in the ride height using a body lift.
d. A change in the diameter of the wheel and tyre combination in excess of +/- 7% of the
largest size specified by the vehicle manufacturer.
e. Modifications that produce no change to the vehicle’s ride height involving –
i. conversion from coil to leaf springs;
ii. changes to the suspension configuration;
iii. fitting a suspension of a different design eg from a different make and model (eg
from coil springs to leaf springs);
iv. fabricating suspension mounting points; or
v. any alteration of structural components.
The modification categories listed above are not exhaustive. Further categories may be
added over time.
3.3 Modifications not covered by this Manual
The following modifications are not covered by this Manual:
1. Modifications that increase the ride height by more than 150mm. This modification

The facts are the facts.
 

tommudd

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My Final Answer to this
All lift kits manufactured were advertised as 1.5 inches for insurance purposes
NOW maybe things have changed over the past couple of years and you are finding new rules and regulations.
But according to ARB/ OME back a few years and also Stu ( Murchison ) who was a LOSTJEEPs member for years before he started his business this was what was advertised and talked about everywhere.
NOW again maybe they changed over there, but I'm not arguing something that is very clearly not even worth the time to argue.
You can post whole volumes of books on here until the cows come home. It does not and will not ever change the facts that we all know from years back. You must remember a lot of us were here from almost the beginning of the KJs. Back when 2.5 inches was a big lift, a few of us pushed the limits, tested new parts, different setups to go higher and better .
I remember one day having 3 completely different setups on my 04 in one day for example and we shared it all with Stu and the others and more discussions followed
So now, continue on with " your " discussion, and enjoy yourself! :happy175:
 

Disco95

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My Final Answer to this
All lift kits manufactured were advertised as 1.5 inches for insurance purposes
NOW maybe things have changed over the past couple of years and you are finding new rules and regulations.
But according to ARB/ OME back a few years and also Stu ( Murchison ) who was a LOSTJEEPs member for years before he started his business this was what was advertised and talked about everywhere.
NOW again maybe they changed over there, but I'm not arguing something that is very clearly not even worth the time to argue.
You can post whole volumes of books on here until the cows come home. It does not and will not ever change the facts that we all know from years back. You must remember a lot of us were here from almost the beginning of the KJs. Back when 2.5 inches was a big lift, a few of us pushed the limits, tested new parts, different setups to go higher and better .
I remember one day having 3 completely different setups on my 04 in one day for example and we shared it all with Stu and the others and more discussions followed
So now, continue on with " your " discussion, and enjoy yourself! :happy175:

No problem Tom, I appreciate that you have finally admitted that what I am saying is correct. What was true years back has no bearing on the facts today. We are modifying our vehicles in todays regulations so that is what is relevant.
Wouldn't you agree?
 

tommudd

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No problem Tom, I appreciate that you have finally admitted that what I am saying is correct. What was true years back has no bearing on the facts today. We are modifying our vehicles in todays regulations so that is what is relevant.
Wouldn't you agree?

Finally admitted ??? I did not admit anything, nothing, zip, I stated they may have changed but ...........
I haven't seen anything concrete yet that they did, or if they did it was a small amount since you're possibly talking 2 inches instead of 1.5 inches
 
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Disco95

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Finally admitted ??? I did not admit anything, nothing, zip, I stated they may have changed but ...........
I haven't seen anything concrete yet that they did, or if they did it was a small amount since you're possibly talking 2 inches instead of 1.5 inches

Riiiight, so posting up the advert for 2.5 to 2.75 inches doesn't show that you are wrong and posting up the regulations showing that you are wrong proves nothing?
I've posted evidence you have not posted 1 shred of evidence.
As for worth clarifyinng, I have been playing with 4wds for many years and have some knowledge of what I am doing. I may be new to the Jeep thing, but not to modding 4wds.
If an inexperienced Aussie comes onto this forum, do you really want to give him incorrect information?
10 years ago I had to have some insurance work done on my Discovery, had put on 31's and a 2inch lift. I had even included these mods (along with others) in my insurance as they increased the value of my vehicle. They were legal mods and my vehicle was completely covered by insurance. 10 yeas ago. So things have not changed in the past couple of years.
I know that you guys know what you are talking about with mechanical information, That is why I joined this forum. I'm not doubting that. What you obviously don't know Tom, arethe laws for suspension modifications here in Oz.
As I stated, do you really want to be giving people wrong information?
 
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Disco95

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And Tom, just to be clear, if you go about it tharight way in Australia you can legally lift your vehicle to 5.9 inches, 150mm.
Read the regulations that I posted earlier before trying to shoot me down.
 

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