Rookie needs help with tires/rims before I make a costly mistake.

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TheCluelessOne

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Hi, Im a total rookie at doing car work but want to upgrade to some beefier/bigger wheels for some mild off-roading several times a year.

2007 Jeep Liberty Limited:
Rims 17x7.5
Current Tire: 235/65R17

Questions:

1. I was hoping to upgrade to a 245/70R16 tire size but I now believe that is impossible without changing the rims. Am I correct in assuming that tire wont fit due to my 17x7.5 rim?

2. If I am correct that it wont fit then what is the biggest tire I can upgrade to on my current rim? (If even possible)

3. What all terrain tires should I consider if I have to stay the same size tire? Unfortunately the Firestone Destination A/T are the best I can find in my current size so far, I would like General Grabber AT2's.

4. So if I can't get the 245/70R16 on my current rim what is the LEAST amount of modifications to make them work? Im okay with minor rubbing like the wiki said. I need backspacers I guess??? Do I need them for both the front and back? I also would have to buy new rims obviously. Where can I find "16x8" Jeep Wrangler Rubicion wheels (Moab Wheels)" as recommended in the wiki?

Links to products Id need would be very appreciated. Thanks in advance! Glad to be here! :signs75:
 

CzarKJ

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Welcome before we can dive into it... What is your current setup? Any lift at all? Can you measure from the middle of the hub directly up to the bottom of the fender flare for us?
 

TheCluelessOne

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Bone Stock..."Trail Rated" for whatever that is worth


I think I measured what you asked for correctly...the middle of the hubcap to the lowest part of the fender directly above. Measurement worked out to 18 1/8 inches
 

TheCluelessOne

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tommudd

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Bone Stock..."Trail Rated" for whatever that is worth


I think I measured what you asked for correctly...the middle of the hubcap to the lowest part of the fender directly above. Measurement worked out to 18 1/8 inches

So first things first
You are sagged almost an inch which highly affects the height of tire you can go with
Yes if you want to go with 16 inch tires you need 16 inch wheels
Second , you'll be stuck with stock size tires like 235-70-16s for example due to the sagged / worn out suspension
So no go on the 245-70-16s
 

tommudd

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Next 16X8 Moabs will not work due to sag and you'll need to lift to even run a tire that would fit those wider wheels
Forget wiki, half of whats on there is plain BS
You can do it right without " minor rubbing" But first you need new shocks and springs all the way around
 

TheCluelessOne

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God bless you Tommudd! Ive been lurking these forums for a few days and I was praying you would answer, haha! Seems like you are a guru around here...

Bummer on the news though...but thank you for letting me know where I stand on my specific car!

You mentioning sag reminded me that my Jeep is not in fact bone stock. The car used to be my parents and they towed it behind their motorhome. They had some sort of device to disengage the...???transmission??...something that allowed it so the car could be towed. Im not sure how much weight this added. I included a picture when the tow bar(?) is attached.

Sounds like my shocks and springs are shot then even for "normal" driving? Are you saying that by viewing that one picture you can tell I need new shocks and springs no matter if I want to do off roading or not? BTW the tire hub/fender measurement I showed you was the front passenger tire.

Assuming I need new shocks and springs no matter what then what shocks and springs do you recommend for casual/non crazy off roading?

If I correct the sag issue with new shocks and springs am I still stuck with the same original tire size unless I get a lift?

I read about the Clevis lift...Does that type of lift my my suspension go to crap? If I do Clevis (3/8ths) and spacers (1/4in) does that make my ride/suspension go to crap?

If I do Clevis and/or spacers PLUS get the 16x8 rims would that make it so I could get bigger tires? Should I ignore the Clevis lift and go another direction...Id rather not spend $800-$1500 on a lift if possible

A small amount of information I have is dangerous in the wrong hands...lol

Thanks again
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TheCluelessOne

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Tom, I just found you on another thread saying it should be 19 inches so I see what you are saying about sag. You also said you never saw a Liberty with 75kmi on it that didnt have sag...my car has 72kmiles, lol, good call

What Im sort of getting at is if I need new shocks and springs regardless, which it now sounds like I do then maybe its not that much more to go into the more off road rated shocks/springs...or am I talking out of my ass?? haha

1. What would be the cost of "daily driver" shocks/springs....something I need anyways.

2. What would be the cost of "seldom weekend warrior" off road rated shocks/springs while keeping current (19inch) height? Is that a waste of money since Im keeping the car the same height or beneficial for off roading even without a lift?

3. What would be the cost of "seldom weekend warrior" off road rated shocks/springs that increase the height, either by themselves or with a budget lift added (if needed)

These are now the questions I have no clue how to approach...lol...Im sorry Im so helpless. I promise to learn on my own too! ha
 
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profdlp

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...Are you saying that by viewing that one picture you can tell I need new shocks and springs no matter if I want to do off roading or not? BTW the tire hub/fender measurement I showed you was the front passenger tire...
Not to butt in on Tom, but...I will. :D

I think his advice is based not on the picture but on the measurement. Stock height is 19", you're at 18", so you have sagged an inch. Bigger tires would be a tight fit even if you were at 19" but since you're not, stock is as big as you could go right now.

Since you mentioned the towing, you might see if your driveshaft for 4WD has been removed. Unless you get all four wheels off the ground, towing most of our Jeeps will engage one end or the other even when in neutral. I have never tried this myself, so if I'm mistaken someone will be along to publicly humiliate me...I mean "gently correct me" soon. :happy175:
 

TheCluelessOne

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Yes...the measurement in the picture, lol

My 4WD driveshaft has been removed??? That sounds like I could never use 4wd if that had been done. I certainly can still use the 4wd capabilities.

If someone could help me with those three questions I posted above I would be very grateful!
 

tommudd

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Tom, I just found you on another thread saying it should be 19 inches so I see what you are saying about sag. You also said you never saw a Liberty with 75kmi on it that didnt have sag...my car has 72kmiles, lol, good call

What Im sort of getting at is if I need new shocks and springs regardless, which it now sounds like I do then maybe its not that much more to go into the more off road rated shocks/springs...or am I talking out of my ass?? haha

1. What would be the cost of "daily driver" shocks/springs....something I need anyways.

Daily Driver, well that opens a lot of doors, all but one of my DDs have lifts , I would never waste money on stock suspension so jeepinbyal OME kit

2. What would be the cost of "seldom weekend warrior" off road rated shocks/springs while keeping current (19inch) height? Is that a waste of money since Im keeping the car the same height or beneficial for off roading even without a lift?
There is no such thing as a weekend warrior off road rated springs and shocks to stay at 19 inches

3. What would be the cost of "seldom weekend warrior" off road rated shocks/springs that increase the height, either by themselves or with a budget lift added (if needed)
850 gets you 2.5 inches of lift OME best out there besdies the adjustable coilovers from JBA
These are now the questions I have no clue how to approach...lol...Im sorry Im so helpless. I promise to learn on my own too! ha

Not helpless, some come on here way worse than you ! :happy175::emotions34::icon_razz:
 

profdlp

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TheCluelessOne

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Tom, GREAT INFORMATION, THANK YOU!

Of course now you made me think of more questions in response to your answers...haha, sorry..

1. Yeah, I guess there would be a lot of options for DD shocks and springs. I understand your lack of enthusiasm for stock shocks/springs. Im basically trying to talk myself into a lift by telling myself something like "Well basic shocks/springs + labor will cost me $750 (price sound right???) and JeepinbyAl recommendation only costs $850+labor(how much you think labor would be?) so for only a few hundred dollars more I might as well get the lift and be happy."
So what do you think the difference is between part+install of stock stuff vs parts+install of JeepinbyAl lift kit? Let me know what my price estimates really should be please. :)


2. If I do get that lift kit is changing to a 16x8 rim so I get get the tires I want as simple as unbolt old rim/bolt on new rim...or are there other components that I am unaware of?

3. Could you please provide link to the 2.5inch lift kit you are reffering to? All I can find is the 1.5inch kit shown here: OME 1.50" lift kit KJ

4. If I did the lift kit Id actually be getting a 3.5inch lift essentially right? 2.5 from the lift and 1inch because I no longer have sagged springs. My rational correct?
 
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TheCluelessOne

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Then it most definitely is there. There is a procedure for "four-down" towing which involves disconnecting a drive shaft:

http://www.rvamerica.com/TownTalk/RVAmericaForums/tabid/79/forumid/1/postid/258847/scope/posts/Default.aspx

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=583572

:)

I just talked to my dad about this modification. It has nothing to do with the 4WD system. What they installed makes the brakes in the jeep also be engaged when they press the brake pedal in the motorhome. It also allows them to control the blinkers of the Jeep from their motorhome turn signal lever
 

profdlp

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...Im basically trying to talk myself into a lift by telling myself something like "Well basic shocks/springs + labor will cost me $750 (price sound right???) and JeepinbyAl recommendation only costs $850+labor(how much you think labor would be?) so for only a few hundred dollars more I might as well get the lift and be happy."...
Sound thinking. I needed new shocks and springs. The bullet-biting was resolved when I focused on the price differential, not just the overall price. If a hamburger cost ten bucks and you could get a good steak for twelve dollars, which would you order? ;)

I just talked to my dad about this modification. It has nothing to do with the 4WD system. What they installed makes the brakes in the jeep also be engaged when they press the brake pedal in the motorhome. It also allows them to control the blinkers of the Jeep from their motorhome turn signal lever
That is great, but what I was referring to is this:

...The car used to be my parents and they towed it behind their motorhome. They had some sort of device to disengage the...???transmission??...something that allowed it so the car could be towed...
That is an entirely separate thing. The first is just to make the towing highway-safe and legal. The second is to make the towing safe for your Jeeps drive train and prevent mechanical damage. It may be dependent on which 4WD package you have in the Jeep. :)
 

TheCluelessOne

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If a hamburger cost ten bucks and you could get a good steak for twelve dollars, which would you order? ;)

Exactly, but I still dont know really what the exact cost of the hambeurger and steak are...like how much can I expect to pay for someone to install the lift kit Tom mentioned

The second is to make the towing safe for your Jeeps drive train and prevent mechanical damage. It may be dependent on which 4WD package you have in the Jeep. :)

Yeah, I think I was 100% wrong about it affecting any driving issues, it just controls the brakes and blinkers

BTW...Ive been reading through your Jeep progression thread. Good stuff!
 

tommudd

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Tom, GREAT INFORMATION, THANK YOU!

Of course now you made me think of more questions in response to your answers...haha, sorry..

1. Yeah, I guess there would be a lot of options for DD shocks and springs. I understand your lack of enthusiasm for stock shocks/springs. Im basically trying to talk myself into a lift by telling myself something like "Well basic shocks/springs + labor will cost me $750 (price sound right???) and JeepinbyAl recommendation only costs $850+labor(how much you think labor would be?) so for only a few hundred dollars more I might as well get the lift and be happy."
So what do you think the difference is between part+install of stock stuff vs parts+install of JeepinbyAl lift kit? Let me know what my price estimates really should be please. :)
Price would be the same for the installation pretty much whichever way you go. Same parts come off, same go on

2. If I do get that lift kit is changing to a 16x8 rim so I get get the tires I want as simple as unbolt old rim/bolt on new rim...or are there other components that I am unaware of?
If you run Moabs from an 03 -06 Rubicon then yes same bolt pattern and mount right on, NOW the thing is the two best tire sizes that fit on an 8 inch wide wheel are 255-70-16s and 265-70-16s, you'll also have to pound over the pinch weld of course , I have pictures somewhere. Better choice are the 7 inch wide 4 inches of backspacing wheel

3. Could you please provide link to the 2.5inch lift kit you are reffering to? All I can find is the 1.5inch kit shown here: OME 1.50" lift kit KJ
They state 1.5 due to insurance reasons in the land down under ( Australia ) where they make the OMEs , you actually get 2.5 inches and can go up with minor work

4. If I did the lift kit Id actually be getting a 3.5inch lift essentially right? 2.5 from the lift and 1inch because I no longer have sagged springs. My rational correct? Yes in theory you would be going up that amount since you are sagged that much. Be like the guy who drove in at 17.5, we did a 3.75 inch lift on his, we test drove it and when we pulled back my garage he went to step out and fell flat on the floor. He was 5.25 inches higher with lift plus another 1/2 inch from tires :happy175:
OK ? clear as mud yet ? :gr_grin:

Here is 2.5 inches of lift, Moabs and 265-70-16 tires on my 03
( JBA Total Control Lift ) but same height you would have from OMEs
Mall Crawlin' at temp job
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TheCluelessOne

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You're doing God's work Tom. You rock. Let me really absorb what you said, have dinner, and get back to you.

Thank you for the help from both of you!
 

TheCluelessOne

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2. If I do get that lift kit is changing to a 16x8 rim so I get get the tires I want as simple as unbolt old rim/bolt on new rim...or are there other components that I am unaware of?
If you run Moabs from an 03 -06 Rubicon then yes same bolt pattern and mount right on, NOW the thing is the two best tire sizes that fit on an 8 inch wide wheel are 255-70-16s and 265-70-16s, you'll also have to pound over the pinch weld of course , I have pictures somewhere. Better choice are the 7 inch wide 4 inches of backspacing wheel
Thank you again! The above quote/answer Im not fully understanding. "Better choice are the 7 inch wide 4 inches of backspacing wheel"....what does this mean? I understood my tire size choices (255-70-16s and 265-70-16s) but you lost me on the 7x4 backspacing wheel. Is that additional parts I need If I do the lift or some other tire spec Im unaware of?

Thank you for your response again, you are saving me so much headache due to being clueless what my BEST options are and all that they entail
 
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