Help with driveline noise

[TomB985]

Good evening, guys.

Looking for some suggestions tracking down this driveline noise. To me it sounds like U-joint noise, but it predominantly happens when in four-wheel-drive above 55 mph. It gets much louder when on the throttle, but is still there to a lesser degree when coasting. In 2WD it’s still there, but relatively quiet regardless of throttle position

My best guess is one of the CV joints on the front driveshaft. I replaced the rearward joint first with a cheap eBay unit because the OEM boot was torn when I purchased the car last month. Noticing the driveline noise, I returned the joint and replaced the entire shaft with a unit from Detroit Axle I purchased off eBay. It’s doing the same thing with the new shaft.

Check out this video I made last night. You can best hear the noise around the 21st second, and it fades in and out as I feather the throttle. This was all between 65-75 mph in full-time 4WD.

https://youtu.be/D_XtHX9b9Lg

Running without the driveshaft the noise is completely gone. Nothing appears amiss with the new shaft or either joint, and I pulled their rear driveshaft this evening and the U-joints are in good shape. I put all corners on jack stands and listened to the entire driveline this evening, and none of the bearings seem to be making any noise. My gut is telling me it’s the cheap eBay driveshaft, is there anything else I should check before returning this thing?

Thanks!

 

[sota]

I thought the general rule was don't go that fast in 4WD, regardless of PT or FT.

 

[LibertyTC]

Is yours a Select Trac transfer case with full time 4WD or Do you have Command Trac, which should only be used on slippery surfaces, like rocks, mud, snow etc..??
Shifting in/out can be done up to 55 mph, but I have never been up to 50mph in any 4WD mode.
Binding can be an issue if you have the Command Trac and are not on slippery surface & a good way to damage the transfer case.

 

[TomB985]

Is yours a Select Trac transfer case with full time 4WD or Do you have Command Trac, which should only be used on slippery surfaces, like rocks, mud, snow etc..??
Shifting in/out can be done up to 55 mph, but I have never been up to 50mph in any 4WD mode.
Binding can be an issue if you have the Command Trac and are not on slippery surface & a good way to damage the transfer case.

I’m sorry, I should’ve been more clear in my post. I have the Selec-Track system.

I thought the general rule was don't go that fast in 4WD, regardless of PT or FT.

I've spent a lot of time researching this system, and I’ve never found a speed limit. I'm always open to being proven wrong, though; is there something I missed? It seems like some leave your vehicle in full-time for months at a time during the winter months. That’s not my intention, I’m just trying to rule out a problem before it gives me issues down the road. I do plan on using the system at higher speeds this winter when things start to get slippery. I've had more than a 1/2 dozen four-wheel-drive vehicles in the last 10 years, none of them made noise like this when engaged. Not this loud, at any rate!

 

[ltd02]

I'm not much help but just wondering what year do you have? I had Selec trac in my previous 02 and currently in my 05. The 05's driveline seems to be much noisier when under load in fulltime. I haven't really done much to tell if it occurs in parttime. I've just blamed it on the fact that I don't think the previous owner ever used it. I have run the fulltime at highway speeds a couple times but usually only on my winding country two lanes up to about 50-55. I used the fulltime often in my 02 and while you could feel it was in 4wd, I never had the vibes that I have with the 05. The front shaft on mine is original and looks great. I inspect the boots and shaft with every oil change and checked them yesterday while replacing the tcase cable bushing,

 

[TomB985]

I'm not much help but just wondering what year do you have? I had Selec trac in my previous 02 and currently in my 05. The 05's driveline seems to be much noisier when under load in fulltime. I haven't really done much to tell if it occurs in parttime. I've just blamed it on the fact that I don't think the previous owner ever used it. I have run the fulltime at highway speeds a couple times but usually only on my winding country two lanes up to about 50-55. I used the fulltime often in my 02 and while you could feel it was in 4wd, I never had the vibes that I have with the 05. The front shaft on mine is original and looks great. I inspect the boots and shaft with every oil change and checked them yesterday while replacing the tcase cable bushing,

Mine is an '04, Thanks for the reminder to update my signature.

You’re more help than you think, I appreciate your perspective. This gets loud enough to almost drown out the radio at a reasonable volume. Perhaps it is normal?

 

[ltd02]

Mine is an '04, Thanks for the reminder to update my signature.

You’re more help than you think, I appreciate your perspective. This gets loud enough to almost drown out the radio at a reasonable volume. Perhaps it is normal?

I doubt it is normal if it's that loud. Tough to tell from the clip you attached above, but shouldn't be drowning out the radio. I do find the 05 to be noisier in general as far as interior noise levels compared to the 02. Much noisier on acceleration whether in FT or not and I had a Borla dual catback system on my 02. I blamed it on less insulation but just my theory. I always have to turn the radio up to about two thirds max volume to really hear it on the highway and I have quiet highway tires too. I do suspect my stock muffler may be on its way out. I really don't hear all that well anyway.

 

[uss2defiant]

I think most of us here buy our driveshaft CV replacements from driveshaftparts.com if memory serves me. Me803? Do a quick search.

I also remember coming across a lot of people not being happy with replacement shafts.

Maybe it is not balanced? Do you see a weight on the shaft in the Mopar one?

 

[LibertyTC]

The rear diff should be serviced every 25k with fresh gear lube.
Do you have a Trac-Lok rear diff? If so, the Mopar 4 oz bottle of limited slip absolutely must be added.
Have you serviced (drain-fill) the transfer case-front diff lately?
Refer in owners manual to fluid specs.

 

[TomB985]

I think most of us here buy our driveshaft CV replacements from driveshaftparts.com if memory serves me. Me803? Do a quick search.

I also remember coming across a lot of people not being happy with replacement shafts.

Maybe it is not balanced? Do you see a weight on the shaft in the Mopar one?

Yup, the OEM shaft had two weights still attached to it. It still sitting on my workbench, but I don’t really see a reason to reinstall. You gave me an idea though, I will experiment with some hose clamps this afternoon and see if it’s a shaft balance issue.

The rear diff should be serviced every 25k with fresh gear lube.
Do you have a Trac-Lok rear diff? If so, the Mopar 4 oz bottle of limited slip absolutely must be added.
Have you serviced (drain-fill) the transfer case-front diff lately?
Refer in owners manual to fluid specs.

This doesn’t sound like bearing noise, and I did change both front and rear differentials when I purchased the car in September. The rear looked fine to a visual inspection, and both got full synthetic lube. Mine has an open rear differential, so I did not have a need to mess with friction modifier. I changed the transfer case loop as well with the specified ATF +4.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

Mine in 4 full used to hum really bad at 30-40MPH until I replaced the rear CV on the front drive shaft. Not in a spot to listen to your video now (will check later and will respond if it changes my opinion) I've run mine up to 80 in 4 full without noises or issues. I generally leave mine in 4 full the whole winter.

It also had a vibration in 4 full when the TC locked up, and only in 4 full. Never thought much of it till I got the trans replaced for the TC failing, and that vibration went away.

 

[TomB985]

I spent about an hour under the car on jack stands with a hose clamp. Spun up the driveline with the hose clamp on different positions on the both front and rear driveshaft. None of the positions did anything but make the problem worse.

At the end I left the transfer case in 2WD and just spun up the rear, and I was surprised to see the noise was the same. Both U-joints felt good to me when I pulled the shaft last night, but perhaps that would be the next logical step. I took this video of the shaft spinning up to 70 mph, and it does look like it has a small wobble, you guys have any thoughts?

https://youtu.be/niZnK2swAS4

I’m thinking the issue may be the rear driveshaft, but since the front spins at the same speed, perhaps normal front driveline noise is compounding a problem from the rear.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

Do you have any noises when backing up? Every time my ujoints have started to fail, the first sign was a chirping noise in reverse.

 

[TomB985]

Do you have any noises when backing up? Every time my ujoints have started to fail, the first sign was a chirping noise in reverse.

Nope, no symptoms at all in reverse. Or below 50 MPH for that matter.

Thinking about taking a test drive without the rear driveshaft. Not sure how I would protect the splines from contamination, though. I imagine anything I tried covering it with wouldn’t survive 3000 RPMs the shaft sees at 70 mph.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

I don't know if it'd do that, that'd be a lot of strain on the front. I don't know if anyone has ever tried that on there though.

 

[TomB985]

I certainly haven’t given up, it almost feels like this is getting worse. I’ll be putting in new U-joints tonight to rule those out.

I can’t find much information about running without a rear shaft, but some comments I’ve read suggest that the driveshaft yoke is required to seal the transfer case. I obviously don’t want to dump my fluid all over the road, so I am going to to hold off on that experiment for the time being. Maybe I will try that in the garage on jack stands if this doesn’t work.

 

[TomB985]

Welp, new Spicer you joints installed today and no change. It doesn’t surprise me, but $25 to conclusively rule them out isn’t the worst outcome.

I suppose that leaves the new shaft from Detroit Axle. I’ll shoot them another message, but I’m almost the point of just dealing with the noise.

 

[farmboy530]

Did you get this worked out? I know it's a few months old but I have a theory based of my situation. I had very similar issues, the sound would change based on the load I'd keep on it (gas pedal pressure and coasting manual ******). The passenger cv is very loose going into the housing. It took a long time to figure out I didn't replace the center axle shaft when I did the cv's. The worn splines did fine for months then the sound came back. It 100% feels and sounds like drive line sound and I can feel it in the stick shift. Just and idea but possibly a worn out passenger cv and center shaft.

 

[tommudd]

Did you get this worked out? I know it's a few months old but I have a theory based of my situation. I had very similar issues, the sound would change based on the load I'd keep on it (gas pedal pressure and coasting manual ******). The passenger cv is very loose going into the housing. It took a long time to figure out I didn't replace the center axle shaft when I did the cv's. The worn splines did fine for months then the sound came back. It 100% feels and sounds like drive line sound and I can feel it in the stick shift. Just and idea but possibly a worn out passenger cv and center shaft.

intermediate shaft is always changed with the CV ( or should be since both wear)
without changing it this happens ( noise and vibration )
Plus use only NAPA remanned ones
also now if you have play, did not change the intermediate shaft you may have ruined the bearing inside the diff
Also check rear CV on front driveshaft ( cost is 35-40 bucks to rebuild it ) www.driveshaftparts.com

 

[farmboy530]

Tommudd, yes I learned my lesson the hard way with the intermediate shaft. How do you get to the bearing in the diff? I'm going to do the rebuild soon and I'm starting to gather all my parts. I figure its going to be a pretty big project especially if I have to pull bearings and seals..